Technical 350/350/9” and other recipes.

Just throwing this out there on a la y Friday afternoon .

it gets a lot of flack .

boring .
No creativity.
Cheap .
Easy .
“Belly****on “

the tried and true 350/350/9”

while it’s been done to death it’s a pretty bulletproof recipe for reliable cheap power on the road .

the ford small block ( while having funny accessories bits and about 24578889 different ring gear and starters is a fantastic engine paired with a C4 or AOD is fantastic .

What else is a bulletproof or fantastic driveline “ recipe “?

 

I'm building my 3rd car with a 454/Turbo 400/8 3/4 Chrysler set up. Simple, torquey, easy to fix and rugged. I stockpiled 8 3/4 stuff 25 years ago, so that part is easier for me.

 

There was a time id imagine that a flat head and a 3 speed was boring but was the got to for most hot rodders and a SBC was the hot ticket suddenly . unelss yoru here and live to a set of loose rules placed here what you shoose to power your toys is up to you . How others view them is up to them .

Im 60 soon, I grew up with the SBC . Id love a flat head to look at in a hot rod and even drive some but My world was sbc and bbc growng up .

Some of the alternatives were weird ten and were not that popular then and are more popular now likely because there NOT a chevy . Like a Studibaker V8 in a model A why ?? Then it was what you have and it made more than the flat head today it would be because its not a SBC and different. Some day the SBC might be like a flat head and not seen as much and a LS or some new engine will take its place .
I saw a Studibaker IN a A a few weeks ago thought why did he do that today ? has to be different . Fact is it made me look at it .
neighbor is Buildng a 27 T street rod with a aluminum LS and a hood and sides . his car his choice . It will make 500 HP easy and be more reliable than the SBC . ugly IMO .

Personaly I like sticking rare and od ball speed equipmet on a SBC that others don't have . It makes it differant enough and gives a differant look . This ridge runner ram for example . If I dont use a SBC then what the hell do I do with all this cool stuff i collected for 50 years ?

The Model A PU I just bought from Dad is not HAMB friendly as its got a chrome IFS and a Nissan IRS differential of all things . rest of the body is damn near stock and its got a 350 and 350 trans and I was like Meh when I bought it but you know what the starter went out last week and was able to get one in 5 minutes from 10 different stores . I want to drive it a lot so having something thats common is a plus .
would I rather have the 331 hemi I have in it ?? Sure but Im not taking a 5,000 mile run with that 331 I have . The fact it ( SBC) makes about 375 HP does not hurt even if its boring to look at .

 

Early sbc, manual trans, 9.3”…………

 

Well I've got the 9 inch because it is tried and true. However, the rest of the drive train is a 401 Nailhead and a 400 Turbo Hydramatic with a 2 position stator.

 

The AOD is the opposite of "fantastic" especially if you are going for reliability. Unless you are building one from scratch in which case it is not cheap either. They were garbage when new and still garbage now.
I run '64+ 3 speed toploaders in all my hot rods. You can get them dirt cheap because they aren't the 4 speed variant, but they are just as bulletproof. Hard to beat a sbc in front of it for cheap power.

A lot of this stuff has to do with location. Around here it's easier to find a dam 455 Olds than a basic sbf. So "cheap" combos are going to vary. I used to stockpile the old Falcon inline 6s, could find complete running low mileage engines for $50 and they fit in anything.

 

Vandenplas, I’m completely with you, 350/350/9 inch. My Chrysler buddy used to say, do you know why Chevy guys love the 9”? Because Chevy never made an engine that could break one!!! At this point, he’s laughing hard at his own joke.

 

Big cube, light weight small block, check.

Three pedals, check.


Hell fer stout nine inch, check.

 

377, M22w , 12 bolt

 

3 pedals, 3 speeds, and no valve covers

 

327 - M22 - 9" w/4:57 gear's...

 

Have your ever seen anyone change out the gears in a 12 bolt GM rear end between rounds at the drags? There are far more reasons to run a nine inch than just strength. Remember before he had the overdrive, Squrrel carried his "race"punpkin in his Nova while he had his "road" pumpkin in the rear end to boogie down the road.
Loose a wheel bearing on a 10 or 12 bolt chevy rear end and you pull the cover to take the clips out, then pull the axle out and hope it isn't chewed up and then figure out how to get the bearing out. Not a hard job in a shop with proper tools but not something you really want to do on the side of the road, in a parts house parking lot or in a motel parking lot. Loose one on a nine inch and these days the hard part is finding someone with a press to press the bearing off and on.

 

When I decided to build my roadster, I didn't want to be a "cookie cutter" built hot rod. Nothing against 350 Chevys, I have had one in my OT 68 El Camino 1982. I just wanted to return back to my youth when everybody ran all types of engines, not just small blocks. I chose a 354 hemi and a different transmission. The transmission I chose is a 1976 Pacer overdrive. A friend at a transmission shop recommended it. It is a full syncro Ford 3 speed with a Lay**** overdrive on the back. AMC used it as an option for 75-77 Pacers, Hornets, and Gremlins. I put a Jeep T 150 top shifter on it and it looks like an early shifter from Ford. I did use a 9" rear end from a 64 F100, narrowed 2" each side for fit. It is pretty hard to beat the ruggedness of a 9". The three speed top loader is as stout as the four speed except for one less gear and usually dirt cheap. So, I have a hemi, backed by a three speed top loader and a Lay**** overdrive, (now built by Gearvendors) both solid units. Fourteen years on the road and over 40k miles without any problems at all. The 9" carries a 370 gear set and Ford Trac lock posi unit and turns 14x31 Firestone double diamond sprint car tires with not a peep of complaining .

 

For me if I just want a dead nuts reliable road setup it is going to be an Olds 350R, Turbo 400 and a nine inch with the right gears. I've still got one out of a 76 Cad Seville sitting in the shed waiting for something to be put in. Fast enough with the right goodies . I had one in my 51 Merc for years including a road trip to Bonneville and Texas and put a lot of miles on it after it came to me with a lot of miles on it.

 

Young guys won't get it at all but the 350/350 setup in a hot rod is just and extension of a flathead and a 39 box in an early Ford in the late 40's or early 50's. The buy in was inexpensive, speed goodies are/were not all that expensive and easy to get and you could pretty well do a lot of the work yourself.
Chrysler hemis, Cad or Olds ohv V8 engines were expensive in comparison to getting a flathead, sticking a cam in it and either milling the heads or buying heads. for it. The same exact thing applies to small block Chevys , the buy in is usually inespensive, you can scavange up speed goodies , you can swap heads an a cam to gain a lot of performance without spending a lot of money if you work at it. Yuppers you can do it can do it with popular Ford, Mopar , Olds, Cad, Buick or Pontiac engines But even used speed equipment is spendy and sometimes hard to find, You could buy five sbc Perforemers used for what I paid for one for my Cad 500. Truth is you can find used speed equipment for flatheads easier than you can for a lot of 50's 60's and 70's engines today.

 

I just bought a 283 for a winter project so, hopefully, next year my '36 will be a 283/350/8".

Gary

 

^^^^^ Why not 283/350/55-64 drop out ten bolt?

 

^^^^^You know, make that T350 a Glide instead.

 

Just about anything is. If its built and maintained properly. The y-block, flathead, nailhead, olds, Hemi, ford, FE and others are all very dependable. And with the aftermarket industry you can basically run the the same fuel system and ignition system on all these engines. So breakdown parts aren't an issue.
Couple them with any transmission you want with all the available adapters.and you have a cool old hot rod that not a generic belly ****on copy of all the others.
The sbc is just the cheapest and easiest. Always has been. That's all.

 

Why wouldn't one put a student engine in a model A? A good option and probably got it cheap. What would an LS be more dependable than a sbc? And why wouldn't you take a hemi on a 5000mile trip? It's what they are designed to do

 

Paid 40 for a 1999 350, attached my 100 (in 1970) 64 m22, and 100 explorer rear. I have more in the driveshaft than
the rest of the drivetrain.

 

Getting it cheap and being the better choice long term are two offering things . Sure a Studebaker engine might be free but then you want a performance intake , cam, headers , and so on and now your pretty much stuck with what you got .
Most early hot rods were built on the cheap with what made it go the fastest and what you can get your hands on easy if it breaks .

Sure I could spend 8 times as much getting the 331 hemi I have here in something like my A spend another grand getting a good transmission adapted behind it and IF it's rebuilt right it would be reliable for a good amount of time. The issue is when it breaks and everything does eventually on the road your screwed. Example couple years ago I broke a rocker arm on my SBC in my 57 vette in Nebraska 500 miles from home . I was able to source a part in under a hour and was running in two on a Sunday.
Had that been on the Hemi I'd have been looking at a 500 mile tow bill.

Unless it's really built up the Hemi won't match the power of the SBC some cheap parts and then there is a weight disadvantage .

Would I love to have the Hemi in it ?? Absolutely but 95% of the reason is just because the looks . I'd gain nothing else . That said I have the A for its looks.

The LS will run a long damn time and say in 400 or more HP trim will be more reliable than a SBC built to the same power levels . For the LS is likely just a mild cam change .
For the SBC it's a wilder cam change, stiffer springs , much better heads a engine that's more stressed to get the same performance.

I love the SBC been racing them in something since I could drive .
But the newer chevy has some advantages.

It's about like building a full race flat head to try and compete with a stock 283. One is a time bomb and one is not .

I have a 413 SBC here that can make over 600 HP on pump gasoline.
It's not going to have good street manners and it's not going to be something your driving all day .
The neighbors LS powered 68 fire bird with the popular today hot rod stuff makes about the same snd idles damn near like a stock PU .
PERSONALLY I think it's ugly as hell under the hood but it's what hotroders do in 2023 .
The neighbors kid just bought a 88 Firebird I had sitting for $500 .
He is 15. He just bought a complete LS with computer and trans for $600. His dad gave him a cam that his lifters will run on as is .
In hot rod tradition that 15 year old by the time he us 16 will have a car for under $2000 that will blow the doors of my vette, Mustang and model A . His used LS will be more reliable likely than the 305 TBI engine in the car was new.
I hope he gets it going he's the hot rodded of today .

If every hot rod or street rod build had to run some odd ball " differant " combo most would never get built or if they did a high percentage would be cobbled or not look right.
I know my dad would have never finished the A I just bought 30 years ago. It simple and reliable and more importantly easy so it got finished .

My 27 t project was going to get a chevy 4 built up to about 175 HP.
IT started to stall and time to work on it was hard to find .
This spring I said F it and bought mounts ready made for a SBC and welded them in and I'll stuck a 327 in it and use up some of the cool SBC stuff I collected over the last 50 years . I'll have 400 HP less time and money .
Not exactly what I wanted but MAYBE I'll get to drive it before I die.

I love non traditional stuff from cars , bikes , firearms , and even boats . I'm the guy that has a straight 8 in the shed , a old hemi ,
4 cylinders laying every were .
Still runs 57 Olds rearends in stuff ,
Has lots of odd ball ****. But it sure was nice to just get on the SBC powerd truck put the turbo 350 in gear and go to breakfast with out drama . 99% of the people that noticed the A PU would not know a flat head from a blown hemi or if it's a SBC or a Ford 302.

In fact it's got Ford scripted cast aluminum valve covers on a SBC .
At the last show 75% of the people didn't even catch that ir was a chevy . Telling me even it was nice to see something besides a chevy in a Ford. My Das used to laugh his *** off . Said the Ford fans were to stupid to even know what a good looked like.

Truck is not HAMB friendly. It's what my dad thought was cool in 1998 . Who puts a Nissan IRS in a model A ?? Well he wanted to be different. Now it's not cool here LOL.

 

I built my old beater close to 40 years ago and it is powered with a 350/350/9" tried and true reliable drive train, works for me.

I've used flatheads, small block Fords, small & big block Chevy's, 4 cyl. iron duke & a Buick V6. HRP

 

There is a lot to be said for the 350,350, 9" combination. It works and in this age, it has become a traditional and now vintage combination. However, lots of guys on the Hamb are now concerned with overdrive which the th350 doesn't have and flat tappet wear that we didn't worry about before. Have to be sneaky what I show in the future.

 

^^^^^ Caddy with freeway flyers anyone?

 

Likely how most hot rods in the 40's and 50's were built..
My dads car club welded in a Olds engine in a 50 Ford for almost free and it went faster.

Just like the kid across the street sticking a $600 LS un a $500 88 fire bird . He dosent care what others think he wants a fast car cheap.
I'm all for it .

 

350-350-9……lives on in planned obsolescence. When’s the last year any was in a factory car.

 

350 HO Turn-Key Crate Engines | Chevy Performance Parts (chevrolet.com)
engines are still available new .

are they still installed in vehicles out side the US any more I forget . I think the boats stll run them ?

 

Same here but with a 9" because it found ME

Same truck, had a tri5 rear, found a bent axle, its laying out back

 

Rebuilt I believe.