Hot Rods Old Painter, question about epoxy primer etc

(kinda long)

From decades ago , I still have gallons of ppg Condor primer surfacer and gallons of a ppg Primer sealer (red oxide color) from the 1980's. I used to like painting cars with Acrylic enamal and a hardener, single stage.

I havent done in major auto painting in decades, havent used 2 part epoxy primer(sealer)yet. But recently, Ive only used 2 stage clear coat type paint on a small motor cycle project, and some 2 part primer surfacer

-Is the epoxy primer the best stuff to use now days, mix with hardener over bare metal too seal? -Is there epoxy primer that you dont have to use a 2 part hardener with now days?..... I have some rust repair patch welding to do and want to seal when Im done.

I moved to a small town in the boonies in Idaho from ca. Is there a mail order auto paint supply that is good and knowledgable to order and get paint and supplies from?
I know of a couple mail order auto paint suppliers I can get paint shipped from but they are in Calif and probably dont have some of the "good" paint, since Calif has stupid laws making certain quality products illegal to be sold in their state or to cross their stateline

 

You can still use lacquer primer, if you have it, and the appropriate thinner. It still works just like it did back 40 years ago. Still shrinks, etc. I brushed some on a couple damaged spots on a couple old red Chevys just recently.

If you read the directions on the label of modern paint, you might find some recommendations for what to use under it. Perhaps an epoxy primer over bare metal, or "iffy" old paint, perhaps a few coats 2K (catalyzed urethane) filler type primer over that with sanding between coats to get it straight, then the top coat of either catalyzed acrylic enamel, urethane, or base/clear coat system. All of this stuff is catalyzed, two (or more) part, and you need to take seriously the safety precautions.

I don't have any mail order recommendations, as we have an auto paint supply in town.

oh...here's a link to a modern acrylic enamel, you'll probably have to dig a little deeper on the web page to get the surface preparation suggestions. 2K primer and epoxy primer

 

I buy paint supplies off eBay usually because the local body shop supply store closed and the parts stores who do paint are to expensive. So I shop by brand or vendor and price. Epoxy first coat on everything, metal and filler followed by 2k primer.

Only if I need to match existing paint do I buy the final coats from local sources as most mail/online order sources don't do that.

Just be sure all the layers are compatible. For instance, some epoxies don't recommend, usage over acid treated metal, like Ospho, while others are fine with it.

 

Thanks Jim,
I shouldn't have mentioned Condor.......
I'm just going to be sealing cleaned bare metal after patch pieces are welded in , and other areas of cleaned treated sheet metal to start with....

 

OK that's good to know..... Im going to be using Metal Prep and Ospho in some areas. I wonder why some epoxies cant be used? What happens?

Im still experimenting with Ospho... After using it and letting it dry on rusted areas, Ive been washing it off with a scrub brush and detergent, then drying off the water fast.
Im not sure about painting over that stuff(Ospho) if just let dry and dont clean off the acid/chemical residue, or even what the heck it is.... The Ospho instructions say paint right over the dried stuff....that seems weird.

.

 

I’ve had good success with 2 part epoxy primers on bare metal. I used a lot of ppg DP in different colors. Bodywork then followed by a high build urethane primer. In Idaho you can probably get the good stuff. I’ve had issues with lacquer and polyester primers shrinking after paint .

 

Acids will slow or inhibit the proper curing of some paints which can lead to failures either right away with the product not properly curing or down the road with the paint failing.
ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS read and follow the technical data sheet of what you are using. One company has no idea how another companies products will react over their own. They should know basics like what chemistries should generally work over each other but not specifics because even within chemistries things differ from brand to brand and even product to product within a brand so it is very important to read everything and make sure products are compatible before you start using them.

Did I mention to read the technical data sheets? There is literally nothing more important when choosing products than this. The vast majority of the failures I see are because someone didn't read the TDS and used incompatible products on top of each other or failed to follow some other procedure clearly stated on the TDS.

 

Look at autobodypartsdepot. com. They carry a huge selection of paints at good prices and I'm sure you can get tech support, too. I still prefer catalyzed urethane for ease of application and less fuss. Since the Urethane catalyst is a hardener you can apply a good clear coat later if you wish, to take care of any oxidation over time. The primers you have should work okay for this method. They always have for me, anyway.

 

Not much help with your question, but that old PPG Condar was my favorite back in yesteryear, and if thinned down properly and applied over nothing coarser than 180 grit sandscratches, performed quite well. I tossed the last bit I had of it last year, but I have a '59 Chevy pickup hood that has it under a single stage acrylic enamel that has been outside since I painted it in 2007, and it still shows no sandscratches whatsoever.

 

I've been using Tamco for mail order paint. They started with primer , then clear, and now are building up their paint inventory. So far, so good.

 

I was advised by an old timer to spray the primer right over the dryed Ospho
ive done it, and so far have not had any issues
Evan on old rusty motors

If doing small parts I leave them out in the sun after spraying them with Ospho
and used heat lamps on non sunny days

 

No offense to old timers but they would be the absolute last people I would take advice from on using modern paint materials and compatibility. They rarely keep up with technology and are the Kings of saying "it always worked before/I've been doing it this way for ...years" when something goes wrong.

 

The most amazing part is every product I’ve used and followed the instructions has worked.

 

1 . I think his title was referring to himself, not for other old timers.
2. You're wrong in your assumptions. Read my post above. 80yo and still wrenchin', bangin' and paintin'.

 

They are not assumptions. I deal with it everyday and I can assure you the vast majority of older techs do not keep up with technology.

 

I finally found out I know very little about paint nowadays, so I got the epoxy primer, high build primer, and topcoat from Sumitt. Plus their thinner and activator.worked very good

 

They are assumptions when you apply them to a class at large and not just your acquaintances . Not everyone is like the few you deal with.

 

I deal with about 3500-4000 collision and restoration shops in Western Canada plus a pile of DIYers. I can guarantee the "few I deal with" are more the norm than your own personal example.

 

K13 you give great advice as always. I like spi epoxy primer and about to use their hi build primer soon. Spi has a good web site and paint forums.

 

Geese, Who cares?

 

I do.

I learn a bunch from paint reps

 

TAMCO paint online do a search here and join their group on FB

 

Ill check Tamco out , thanks.... I dont do facebook though

There's a Paint shop in Lewiston, Its 70 miles away , I called , they sell PPG and Omni products, they are affiliated with Wesco(?) on their website.
.

 

More than one thread here about TAMCO

 

Why on earth would you want to go back to spraying lacquer or enamel primer theres a reason we dont spray it anymore its like saying using Redcap is better than metal glaze. Epoxy over bear metal or if your just doing a repair acid etch than spray some 2 k down read the mixing directions it lays down nice you will wounder why you ever had to spray that other primer,

 

where did that come from? wow! wrong thread??...LOL

 

Try Auto Body Toolmart for mail order paint and supplies

 

Well, my circle of acquaintances is certainly less than your 3500-4000.

 

The regulations were changed a very long time ago.

Even most of the least expensive modern epoxy primer is far better than anything made in the past under the old laws.

That said, poly is even better.

I use a lot of UPol 4:1 national rule primer. By the gallon it is part number 2253, and that is gray.

2275 is black, and 2277 is white.

Each can be tinted up to 10% with your color coat color.

You can get it online, from TCP Global, and even from Amazon.

 

Another recommendation for tcp global for paint supplies. Really like House of Kolor KD3000. It's a epoxy/primer hybrid that seals bare metal but also acts like a primer and can be painted on directly. Pricey though.