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Hot Rods Using vacuum to diagnose a miss

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by woody sanderson, Aug 27, 2023.

  1. woody sanderson
    Joined: Feb 27, 2023
    Posts: 37

    woody sanderson

    I have a 1950 mercury V8. It idles well and has a steady 20-21 inches of vacuum at idle. I recently put rings in it and the compression is 110-115 psi. When I rev it up to 1500 rpm or so when the vacuum settles down it fluctuates rapidly between 16 and 18 inches and I can feel the misfire. It has new plugs and points but the wires have been in it for a long time. Could the fluctuating vacuum indicate a sticking valve? Any ideas on what to check?
    Thanks for your help.
     
  2. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 60,039

    squirrel
    Member

    I think a sticking valve would cause a wider fluctuation. Might be misfiring for any number of reasons....
     
  3. Boneyard51
    Joined: Dec 10, 2017
    Posts: 6,782

    Boneyard51
    Member

    Well, first put new wires on it, if they are suspect!




    Bones
     
    Truckdoctor Andy and 427 sleeper like this.
  4. Kevin Ardinger
    Joined: Aug 31, 2019
    Posts: 1,049

    Kevin Ardinger
    Member

    Definitely would indicate a valve not sealing. Since it’s at higher rpm it could be a spring
     
    onetrickpony likes this.
  5. miker98038
    Joined: Jan 24, 2011
    Posts: 1,599

    miker98038
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Does the fluctuations settle back down, or is the steady 20-21” only there on initially start up? Or does the low fluctuating reading stay there at a constant 1500 rpm?
     
  6. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 60,039

    squirrel
    Member

    I bet a youtube video would be real handy, about now
     
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  7. Petejoe
    Joined: Nov 27, 2002
    Posts: 12,637

    Petejoe
    Member
    from Zoar, Ohio

    Are you running the original distributor? It’s designed for Venturi vacuum off the carb. The advance diaphragms are known to fail over very many years.
     
  8. RodStRace
    Joined: Dec 7, 2007
    Posts: 9,059

    RodStRace
    Member

    Did someone ask for troubleshooting 101 posts this week and I missed it?
    That's pretty darn high for an engine, but I don't have a ton of experience on flathead tuning.
    How about 500 RPM higher or lower (1000, 2000)? This (1100-1400) is normally where transfer ports are at the top of operation and the mains are just kicking in. Doe the miss continue under load and at higher operation?
    Yes, but a sticking valve is going to be constant and more choppy at idle.
    This is the area where it is 'above the pistons' in an overhead valve engine. Things to check include, weak valve springs, intake leaks, carb issues, ignition problems. In other words, a grab bag of issues. Repair/replace things one at a time to confirm.
     
  9. flatout51
    Joined: Jul 26, 2006
    Posts: 1,310

    flatout51
    Member

    Those distributors are notoriously bad. Are you running multiple carbs?
     
  10. bobss396
    Joined: Aug 27, 2008
    Posts: 18,754

    bobss396
    Member

    Vacuum gauge diagnosis charts are very handy to ferret out issues. They used to come with vacuum gauges, I know I have lost mine over time.
     
  11. woody sanderson
    Joined: Feb 27, 2023
    Posts: 37

    woody sanderson

    It is the original distributor, and I checked the diaphragm and it is good. It has the original single Holley carb. It will miss under load but not a dead miss like a dead sparkplug would feel. I'll take a video of the vacuum gauge in operation and post it so you can see what I see.
     
  12. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 15,374

    Budget36
    Member

    This might help
    F254B742-F7B3-4C70-B0F6-990F901F33E3.jpeg
     
  13. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 15,374

    Budget36
    Member

    Well, too hard to read I guess.
     
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  14. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 60,039

    squirrel
    Member

    is this what you meant?

    vac1.jpg vac2.jpg
     
  15. Doublepumper
    Joined: Jun 26, 2016
    Posts: 1,846

    Doublepumper
    Member
    from OR-WA, USA

    Might check dist. shaft for slop. Shaft slop will cause the points gap to fluctuate. This will feel as you describe and can cause the fluctuating vacuum reading.
     
  16. Jack E/NJ
    Joined: Mar 5, 2011
    Posts: 978

    Jack E/NJ
    Member
    from NJ

    >>>Using vacuum to diagnose a miss>>>It idles well and It idles well and has a steady 20-21 inches of vacuum at idle>>>

    Even though it seems to idle well, pull one plug wire at a time anyway to see if you can find any where the idle doesn't drop.
     
    427 sleeper likes this.
  17. ClayMart
    Joined: Oct 26, 2007
    Posts: 7,813

    ClayMart
    Member

    While not impossible, 20" to 21" of vacuum at idle seems unusually high. And increasing ignition timing will also increase vacuum, at least up to a point. So far I've not seen any mention of the current tune-up's initial or total ignition advance. Is it possible that it could have too much initial timing (explaining the high idle vacuum) resulting in too much total timing at 1500 RPM to cause a miss? Maybe stuck advance weights and/or vacuum advance in the distributor?
     
  18. USING VACUUM TO DIAGNOSE A MISS

    Sure, I guess, if you made it look like an accident/unintentional. Let the vacuum latch onto a part of her skirt and lift high, you should be able to get enough of a peek to tell male or female. Keep in mind, this method won't tell you if they were born a female though o_O
     
  19. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 15,374

    Budget36
    Member

    Yep, lol. I saved the file from here on the HAMB, funny I could read it clearly, so saved it. Can’t read it for nothing.
    Now I just saved yours and can read it just fine.
    Thanks.
     
  20. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 60,039

    squirrel
    Member

    it's impossible at 4700 ft elevation, where I live :)
     
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  21. sunbeam
    Joined: Oct 22, 2010
    Posts: 6,396

    sunbeam
    Member

    Steady vacuum at slow speed and fluctuates at higher speed makes me think ignition or weak valve spring.
     
  22. woody sanderson
    Joined: Feb 27, 2023
    Posts: 37

    woody sanderson



    Here are two videos, one taken a couple of minutes after a cold start and the second one was taken after the engine was up to temperature.
     
    osage orange likes this.
  23. wheeltramp brian
    Joined: Jun 11, 2010
    Posts: 3,368

    wheeltramp brian
    Member

    I wouldn't say it's too impossible as I've got 20 inches at idle on my basically stock Merc Flathead.
     
  24. indianbullet
    Joined: Feb 5, 2014
    Posts: 64

    indianbullet
    Member
    from Ca

    You do drop a point for every 1000' feet of elevation. Correct? I know at my elevation I'd never see 20.
     
  25. woody sanderson
    Joined: Feb 27, 2023
    Posts: 37

    woody sanderson

  26. woody sanderson
    Joined: Feb 27, 2023
    Posts: 37

    woody sanderson

    I had to read this twice to get what the heck you were talking about. More than a little funny!
     
  27. woody sanderson
    Joined: Feb 27, 2023
    Posts: 37

    woody sanderson

    I'm at 500ft.
     
  28. You ain't right! But not wrong. LOL

    Ben
     

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