Hot Rods Drum brakes and spindle

I would be looking to find a brake hose that screwed straight into the wheel cylinder rather than the present set up.

 

My question is, What exactly are you trying to do here. What I see of your brake shoes shouldn't require any replacement of ware parts. You haven't shown us enough of any spindle/steering parts to help visually with telling you what you have. The bolt on steering arm helps but again not enough. Remove the backing plate and take a photo of the spindle by itself. Econoline Van was used a lot as well as early Chevrolet. Are the wheel bearings ball bearing or Timken tapper? That in itself will help close down the options. Changing bolt patterns on drums was pretty common so that in itself is not a good gauge for I.D.

 

Measure the bolt pattern, which is referred to as Pitch Circle Diameter (PCD).

Also measure the center register of the drum/hub.
The Dodge and Fords vary here, but all aftermarket wheels are larger than both so they fit both. They end up lug centric, not hub centric. This is a concern with high load situations like autocross and racing, but should not be a big deal for your application. Just make sure the wheels to choose fit before mounting tires.

Also, if they are Dodge, the studs are pressed into the hub, then the drum is slid onto the studs and the drum is swedged around each stud to hold the drum on. These do not just slide, press or tap off! The swedge must be cut before removing the drum of you end up bending things. Do some research first!

 

I am glad you asked that because I have been thinking the same thing. Now I guess I will have to look at it really hard again to see. There is no way you can get any kind of Ackerman with the way they are now. Maybe I need to take a couple of closeup picture and post to get input. Myself I am not sure.

 

To answer a couple of questions that were asked previous about the hub and spindle. The inner bearing is a Timken tapper number 18415 which has roller bearings and not round ball bearings in it. I have put the hub back on, but the bolt pattern is differently 5x4.5 measured with a round 5 bolt gage and not a measuring tape. The studs come thru the plate you see on the outside of the drum and do not stay on spindle when pulled as you can see. I have look at the tie rod and thinking of trying to see about mentioned about of turning it around. Looks like I would also have to move the steering up to the top I believe. If I didn't to me, it looks like the tie rod would hit the spring. I would your input about this as this is all new to me. The question asked of what I am trying to do here I can answer by saying just trying to make a safe ride and be safe. Trying to see what I have and gaining knowledge by people on here who have a lot of experience. I have attached pictures of tie rod and steering for you to see hopefully better.

 

Some close pics of the spring hanger off the wishbone please. Those are a high stress part and should be very strong. Yours look to have a little bolt or stud holding them together?

 

Here is spring hanger off wishbone.

 

No not without a lot of modification.

ACKERMAN = the first thing ******** artists spout when trying sound like they know something about hot rod front ends. Yes if the Ackerman is off the car isn't going to track perfect on corners and may drag a tire a bit but it isn't the end of the world hot rod wise.
Take a look around at other vehicles beyond T buckets. The number of 4x4 trucks with solid front axles that run the tie rod in front of the axle with the same steering arms working on standard cab short wheel half tons and long bed crew cabs.

If you flip the (Ackerman) triangle over so that the point of intersection at the front is the same distance that it would be at the rear the Ackerman is the same anyhow.

It's a T bucket and as it tracks decently down the road and the steering returns to center after a turn and you don't have to herd it all the time to keep it going straight life is good.

 

This mess is what you need to be most concerned with on the car and needs to be corrected before you drive it again. It isn't if that will break it is when it is going to break and drop the whole thing in the dirt. We had a members similar but far better constructed setup break a few years back and total his car and this one is way more poorly designed than his was. This will kill you.

 

You just found a very important problem that hadn't been said yet. Guess I am going to see what material that block, and bolt is made of and make my neighbor will be willing to do some welding for me. Correct me if I am wrong but I am thinking of getting it welded tight on each side. I have a small home welder but don't know if it came do this job. It is a little mig wire fed one.

 

Agree with what Mr48chev said. Also, what's with the brake hoses? They look like the came with a Harbor Freight grease gun. Might wanna change them too.

 

You’ve got three problems in that front end and the tie rod is the least of them. Those spring perches need to be seriously beefed up. That adjustable, screw-in setup is dangerous as others have said. Take more pictures of them from several different angles and post them.
The brake lines look unfamiliar but they may have been made up by an industrial hose supplier and they may be fine. Again, more detailed pictures.
There appears to be enough room to heat and bend the steering arms out towards the backing plates to improve the Ackerman. It won’t be perfect but it might get close enough. Hot rodders have been heating and reshaping steering arms to accommodate dropped axles for years, folks on here can tell you how to do it correctly if you decide to try that.
Those spring perches need immediate attention.

 

I do agree with the spring perches, and it will not go on the road until they are fixed or replace. Not knowing about a lot of this is why I put it out here so I can get some input. I was thinking of putting a new complete front axle kit and setup on it but would like to see it on the road for a bit first. This spring issue is differently. the first thing.

 

I don't know if these pictures will help or not. but a couple of the earlier ones show it well. Tell me if I am correct or not, but if I leave it just as it is and make a couple of flat stock pieces and weld everything together and then weld to the wishbones. If I am correct all it needs is correct bracing right. Don't know if I am saying it correctly. Or do I need to take it off and start over? Man why would someone build it like this. I guess I will learn as I go on this.

 

Due to mixing and matching parts, the spring is narrower than the axle bosses for the hairpins, meaning the shackles had to be 'adapted' to reach. Typically, this is all that's used.
https://shopcaliforniacustomroadste...parts/products/t-shackle-hangers-chrome-1-3-4
here's a pic of the part in place normally. It goes sideways into a bracket or through the radius rod. Yours goes down into the adapter, which goes up and over into the blind hole in the radius rod, using a lock nut to hold.

So either the spring needs to be longer or the axle changed to one with narrower holes and the hairpins moved in. The shackle angle is right, with a 45 angle between, so you can't just stretch out the spring and bolt stuff up. The added part looks better than the earlier pics just from above, but the pins holding the radius rods look like they were beat in and the gap between the added part and the radius rod does no look like it's a big strong taper fit used on hairpins. It looks like it's just straight threaded. That's bad, even tight. The shackle hanger part must lock solidly into the hairpin or radius rod bracket. It also does not go all the way through the hairpin, it just threads into the inner section.
It's an added part that is not needed and is going to be subjected to twisting forces when the suspension moves, which is held with a jam nut. Not good.
Here is speedway's radius rod with a through hole and taper so the shackle is locked in with the taper and a through attachment.
https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Speedway-Split-Wishbone-Style-Front-Radius-Rods,36046.html
None of this is telling you what to buy, just what is typical engineering and areas for concern. You have to decide what you want to use to fix it, but it MUST be fixed!

 

I understand, so if I got everything cleaned up and everywhere we see thread could it be filled with welding or a better bracket from spring shackle to wishbone. Could I use this spring and go to an over axle in the front with getting new pins for the wishbones where they go thru the front. Just thinking of different options. I really appreciate everyone's input.

 

With the part listed above wouldn't that be weak also due to it being totally threaded here it goes thru.

 

You are on the right track here. Make what you have better. It's actually set in a good spot as far as how things work, just not very well done. Don't start throwing money at a problem that don't exist. A complete new front Axle Unit is not necessary. You will soon learn there are a dozen ways to do the same job as far as parts go. Hell, saying that there are a Dozen ways to spend $$$ to fix/do the same job. Any good welder with a little 3/16 plate can make that as safe as you need and you're done. Move on to next issue.

 

You bring me that Axle and including B.S. time and repairs I'll have you back in your truck headed for home in 2 hours. Probably charge you $50.oo. Heck, I don't even need the Axle, just the wishbones.

 

If you were in my area that would be a deal. Where are you located anyway?

 

Speedway has a bunch of articles to read to better understand all the considerations, this forum is constantly discussing stuff and there are other rodding and T Bucket forums too. I consider this forum the best for knowledge, but it is not the only source.
I'd suggest getting the catalogs/build plans from CCR, Speedway and the site below. It should be less than a hundred bucks for all of them. You should be able to identify what your build has, what areas to look for issues, and get an idea of your options for replacing stuff.

You started with brakes, now you are moving into suspension. The entire car should be inspected for issues. We can't just provide the easy fix without a firm understanding of budget, skills, tools and expected results. There was a nice guy who wanted a T bucket a while back. It was discussed and his requirements started growing to include modern safety, handicap access and modern upgrades like rack and pinion and independent suspension. That's not going to work in a minimal traditional package. Even the wild modernized buckets from the 70s and up that I won't even post here wouldn't meet his requirements, and he was on a tight budget with no skills or workspace and tools.

Here are some references, but this is not a full list of places.
https://www.speedwaymotors.com/the-toolbox/suspension-and-steering-tech~34-1-7
https://www.tbucketplans.com/
https://shopcaliforniacustomroadste...ackets-parts/products/11550-ccr-plans-set-1-6

 

I understand what you are saying. I was in the military for over 20 years as a mechanic and have always done most of my own things. All I am looking for is a decent ride to drive around once in a while and to enjoy. When I picked it up the guy had no know of what was on it or any details about it. It was left to him because his uncle p***ed away and he said it was built in 1981. I have been correcting several issues and maybe doing other things once I go further. I know I will do things to dress it up but need to get everything right first. I believe I have straightened out the electrical issues and winter is coming so hopefully by spring it will be ready to roll without issues. Not doing too bad for being 69. If it ever gets too much, well it will have to go. Hoping that won't happen.

 

Wow, that’s even more bizarre in the new pictures. It looks like they put together a sort of trunnion to allow for misalignment in two axis. At least they got the shackle angle right, they just didn’t leave much room for the spring to expand lengthwise.
Like PnB said, some 3/16 plate, cardboard for patterns and someone who can weld can make it safe but you need to trim away some of that big chunk of material so the spring has working room. You’ll need to get all of the paint and grease off of everything. Make a front plate, a back plate, then a top and a bottom. I would make the parts with the car weight on the front end , maybe even tack the front and back plates in place before taking it apart so the angles don’t change.
Of course this is the economy way to fix it. It will be safer but the basic engineering leaves a lot to be desired. The shackle pivot being that far from the wishbone puts additional twist on the wishbone. It really needs a longer spring and then the shackle pivot could be welded right to the wishbone. It all depends on your fabrication skills and budget.
Pardon my lack of photo editing skills….

Don’t be disheartened, it looks like a fun car, just needs a few tweaks to be fun and safe. Have you posted a picture of the whole car?

 

So here are a couple of pictures of the T bucket project. Once I move outside, I will post better ones, but at least it gives you an idea of what I have.

 

It is nice! That’s a good car to tinker with as you drive and enjoy it. Great find.

 

You have a pretty good little package there. No matter the style they all have room for improvements. Don't get caught up in changing to please others. I try to practice the KISS method with an eye to safety and function. I'm on the West coast so outside of your travel range. I did however work at CCR for a while. There's a Bizzillion versions of T Buckets out there, considering that, you have a very nice one to work with. I wouldn't get to wrapped up in Drum brakes verse Disc brakes. That car doesn't weigh enough to feel the difference between them. Heck a lot were built without front brakes at all when Wire Wheels were used. Think F.E.D. at 180 to 200 mph and no front brakes at all. Now 80 mph and rear only Brakes don't sound so wrong. Me Too only means your part of how that crowd thinks, doesn't mean it's the only way to think. Keep the fun factor in front of you and by all means make it safe for what it is.

 

FED's don't use brakes until after the parachutes have done their job. There is no comparison here.

 

Is there at least a Panhard bar in the rear? If not, you are going to have handling issues, in addition to the ones caused by negative Ackerman.

 

Haven't checked the rear much as of yet. Going to get the spring done then check the rear. When I first got it I drove it for about three miles between 40 to 50mph and handled well, but of course that isn't much. I will be checking that also. Not going back on the road until front end is safe and right.

 

Do whatever it takes to get the tie rod behind the axle.