Projects Generator question

Can a generator armature have good continuity across the commentator and still be bad?

My charging system has quit and I can seem to find it. It was charging for the first 3 months then nothing. I have replaced the voltage regulator (twice), replaced the brushes and field coils in the generator. Generator case is grounded to the regulator which is grounded to the body. I have ran jumper ground wires to the battery for tests.
The generator is a new part store gen that I changed the front bracket and pulley. Fields (2nd set) are from an early ford parts house. Optima red top battery. I was originally using a vintage Allstate regulator then a standard and then an unmarked part (all were new in the box). The armature is the only original part of the of the system left since it stopped working.

I tried to “full field” test it by disconnecting the FLD and ARM, putting them together, start the engine, connect the two leads to the BATT. As I read in a thread here on the HAMB. That resulted in scary sparking at the brushes and commentator.

I have added some pictures of the gen and the original voltage regulator I was using.

I have done several 12v conversions and have never had this much trouble. I am very close to stuffing an alternator in the generator case and being done with it. But I refuse to let it win.

 

Short answer yes the armature could be shorted, you would need a growler to find out.
To full field the Ford generator disconnect the field at the regulator and feed it hot with 12v not off the armature terminal.

 

Ah. Well that was less scary.
With the field disconnected and 12 v put to it, the gen put out 4 volts on my voltmeter hooked to the arm lead.
Reving the engine made no change to the output

 

To full field a Ford generator you need to disconnect the field terminal at the generator, and run a jumper wire from the Batt to Field on the generator.

 

The only way you can accurately test an armature for shorts is with a growler. A tool not easily found these days. Is the mica properly undercut? I don't know if this will help, but AutoZone offers free alternator and generator testing. Unsure if they can do anything this old.

 

I now have a generator that puts out voltage. I grabbed a “rebuilt” 6v generator at a swap meet several years ago and it has just sat on the shelf. I thought I would give it a try and I f I let it idle all is good, I can disconnect the battery and it stays running. But if I rev the engine off idle it smokes the voltage regulator. The small wire in the back starts smoking. I have tried 2 different regulators, same thing.
I don’t know, part of me hopes it catches fire and burns to the ground.

 

The ******** about disconnecting the battery and have it still run is only supposed to work for alternators and only because those clowns at Chrysler did it to show that their alternator was superior to generators in 1960 when they did it. Since then it has been a spit and whittle club member test that never leaves town. Armature hack and not real testing.
A generator will work on a stone dead battery where an alternator won't. That meaning that if your battery was stone dead and you had a stick shift you could do a push start or coast and let the clutch out start and as soon as the generator was spinning it would put out enough power to give power to ignition but an alternator has to have power to excite/trigger it to start charging. Yes the hillbilly method of testing one is disconnecting the battery where you have a hell of a good chance of blowing the diodes in the process.

The main thing is quit listening to spit and whittle club members and listen to el1956y and others that have actual knowledge to back up what they tell you.

 

Couple of testing articles that may help you.

 

Does it smoke the regulator with the battery connected? Removing the battery causes the output voltage to go wild.

That small black "wire" on the back of the regulator is a resistor. The resistors are there to limit either field current or armature current. Which of the two regulator coils is it connected to? That would give a clue to weather the problem is in the field or armature.

On a generator regulator you have three sets of points and "relay" coils. The one at the battery connection is the cut-out relay that prevents the generator from "motoring" if the generator output drops below battery voltage. The relay with large windings is the current regulator. It prevents the generator from putting out too much current and overheating (actually melting the lead connection in the armature). The relay with fine windings is the field regulator. It controls the voltage output of the generator. Which relay coil is the hot resistor connected to?

 

Ha. Sometimes I can be so dumb. Any time I have electrical problems it is some obvious problem I overlook. I know that so I try to step back and rethink through the issue. But this one had me for awhile.

While trying everything I had already tried before I touched the voltage regulator and it shocked me so hard I about fell over. Hmm only one thing makes that much power. Sure enough my plug wires that I have in the stock wire tubes are arcing through to the wire harness that I have clipped on top of the tube. I moved the harness and put another regulator on and it works.

the engine runs great so I never considered the plug wires bleeding through.
*sigh*