History Patina, Primer, mailbox scoops and other things that never happened.....OOPS!

I totally get what you're saying. I think the Hamb generally is trying to promote the style of the '65-back era, but not necessarily the execution. How many builders back then used a TIG welder for everything? My view is that if it looks era correct, that outta be good enough, kinda like the FAST drag cars with Polyglas GT tires, but huge stroker cranks inside and crazy porting/piston shapes/camshafts that help them run like the originals could only dream of. As far as the patina/Rat Rod thing, I think the difference between the examples of that stuff back in the day is that back then there was always the desire or intent to finish them or have nice paint, whether it actually got that far, whereas today, it's acceptable or encouraged by the hobby as a whole to be shabby or ratty-just not so much here at the Hamb.

 

That is exactly my point not everyone knows what happened or how every hot rod or racecar was built, but we are at a point where period correct cars are trendy and with trends come the people who only have this style because they think it's cool and don't know, understand, care or have flat out rewritten the history of hot rodding and racing.

We are now at a point where traditional hot rodding is full of revisionist history, and one of these points is there weren't any cars with rough paint, and primer (Just like there are people who insist that no one build four doors) These things are far more popular now but they did happen.

Furthermore, there have always been people like myself. I don't want a car with rot hole or no floors, but chassis and drive train, are the priority personally I if my car gets paint and lettered good but if not black primer and shoe polish numbers, as long as it is fast.

The one that is really driving me nuts is that every car with old/rough paint or in primer was or is a pile of crap and the builder doesn't have any pride but any famous car with fancy paint and lots of chrome that was futured in magazine was well built and was a masterpiece of engineering-

 

Your last two paragraphs fit me. I agree with you completely.

Ben

 

The thing is I like it all, fully finished cars, cars in primer, bare bones, old survivors, barn finds, now there is all this hatred "It's not the way I would build it or in many cases have it built.

The other thing is who determines what is historical?

To people outside of central New York the names Charley Pierce, Fred DeCarr, and Tommy Wilson don't mean anything-

Charley Pierce of Deansboro NY owned this 34 Ford coupe, built by Fred DeCarr who became one of the top oval track engine builders and driven by Tommy Wilson.

The car was so dominating 1951 & 1952 seasons with the Eastern Mutual Racing Club at Vernon, Brookfield, Morris, Sharon, Lafayette, Lafayette they would start him on the pole and count him a lap down - no matter, he would still win.
The car won EMRC Championship in 1951 & 1952.

The Flathead was huge! 304 Cubic Inches I believe; I know it had a 4 1/2" crank.



As found by father and son Dick and Jeff Ackerman in 2004

 

Is that M.G. the same one that was owned by "Wlly The Welder", and later owned by Pat Destefano

 

BUILT THIS 29 A IN 1960, HAS A 32 ROOF, AND ALL PRIMER

 

Figured I could share my 5w. I Found it in an alley in LA and got It from owner who had it since 1944! Its still wearing its red oxide primer from 1959. I haven't touched any of the cosmetics on it.

 

All "Eye of the beholder" stuff... But bondo covers a multitude of sins, and that was a common practice "back in the day" in many cases from what I've seen.
Beaters can be as cool as a car if the proportions are right. It's kinda nice to not worry about crap like rock chips and scratches. I like mine safe and reliable... "pretty" is not necessary.
What the heck is the story on that frame?

 

biggest thing to remember a lot of young people built these cars.

most young people tend to... not be the best at building things? hot rods were deathtraps because they were, at their core, jalopys.
not to say that there werent ones who could build relatively safe, non cobbled hot rods.

 

When I was younger I had a couple of friends who told me I was going to hafta be buried in a primered coffin. I usually drove a primered car that was in the works and it got sold soon after it got paint,they said I'd never stay in anything that had paint!

 

You have a t-shirt that says "I do it for money"?????

 

This one? It is the frame from the Kookie Kar, lots of shiny paint and chrome on that car but the frame was very poorly built an absolute mess, but in many people's eyes because it was shiny it was well built!




The thing is I like it all cars with paint, primer, patina. What I don't like is junk, and just because a car doesn't have paint doesn't mean it is a flaming pile of junk which seems to be the modern feeling.

 

Not to get too off subject or open a can of worms down the rabbit hole but I don't just view a hot rod or hand-built racecar whether they are cars in period or modern builds I see human side the people who built them.

No two people are going to build things the same way, everyone has their own style and techniques.
Hell, I don't build things the same way now as I did five or ten years ago!

I things about what might have been going on in their life.

I am reminded of my older (second) cousin who bought my great grandparents' house. He did a complete remodel of every room in the house, painted and replaced everything in the house expect for kitchen the door casing which was heavily scratched and damaged.

Why, because the damage was done by King my great grandmother's German Shepherd who would lay in the kitchen when grandma cook. King would scratch at the door until she would let him in. When my cousin looked at the door casing he saw King and Grandma Kellerhouse as did my dad and serval other many of the family where others just saw a damaged door casing.

The same way when look at worn thin paint on the windowsill of an old hot rod I see the builder driving with his arm out the window, it's a direct connection.

When I cut the cowl lose a bow from a children's pair of glasses fell out. I always wonder when I find things like this in an old car- How long has it been in the car? The car is a is 93 years old so if the glasses broke when the car was new that child would be almost 100 years old now! What happened to the person? How much trouble were they in for breaking their glasses?

 

Dang! That's what I thought at first... but then thought "It couldn't be, could it?" Thanks for clarifying... Your point is very well made / taken!

 

I will also say as rough and as crude as the Kookie Kar frame it is at this point a piece of history, and shouldn’t be radically changed, the dangerous should be fix and the rest should be left alone.

Are things being fixed because they are dangerous or because they don’t meet modern standards of building?

You also get to a point that if enough things and changed it is no longer the same car.
My dad used to talk about George Washington’s ax, “The handle has been changed 5 times and the head has been changed 3, but since it occupies the same space it’s still his ax.”

I once heard someone say when looking over a survivor hot rod “Why would anyone what an old hot rod, they didn’t even have T.I.G. welders when those cars built!”

 

Dad took this picture in the summer of '67. It one mail box scoop is good, tho must be better!

 

I thought the HAMB was about how things were in the day, not how people wanted them to be. The basis of this thread is how things actually were, regardless of inaccurate recollection. Sure, that guy wanted to finish his car with beautiful paint, but many never did. Those cars stayed in primer or had old paint on them and were driven that way. If we're trying to make our cars be a snapshot of the past, why isn't a car that looks unfinished or a bit ratty an acceptable part of that snapshot?

Seems more like it's personal preference than nostalgia.

 

Thank you Sir!!

Ben

 

I couldn't agree more with: "the dangerous should be fixed and the rest should be left alone."
I.M.O., Changing history due to personal taste is a form of blasphemy.

 

re Norm's car : Story goes Norm put it together, and when he turned right it went left, when he turned left it when right ...
He drove it that way for a while and finally got to Valley Custom, where they "fixed " it ...
LOL

 

I'm with ya on that. The glorification of said patina and extensive surface has turned sour for me. I will continue to shoot for nice. No matter how many pictures folks post of how it "was back in the day"

 

I have said it before I like everything, fully finished cars, cars in primer, bare bares, and cars with old paint even though I am not a fan of the Hi-Tech style I have a great deal of respect for Chip Foose and his skill.

What I don't like is junk! Rotten sheet metal, bad welds, no floor etc... and fake patina.

I don't understand this idea that a car is inferior or the builder/owner of a car in primer or with old paint doesn't care, sometimes a building or letting rough car is done for a reason...

Tommy Ivo built the Ugly T, but because of all the protest of his T bucket.

 

Hello,

When we were teenagers, there was no “patina.” Just a normal car with a weathered look. If left outside in our local neighborhood, it got blasted during the day and at night double blasted with salt air infused moisture drifting into almost every neighborhood. The closer to the ocean one lived, then it doubled for affecting the car/hot rod paint surface as a daily event.

The discussion about the ocean versus the land, heat and cooling should be standard information. The land heats, the moisture stays in the ocean. The land cools, the ocean sees its chance and come rushing in as fast as possible, with a fine mist or sometimes heavy fog. But it is laced with salt from the ocean and doubles the effect on painted/chromed surfaces.

One of our compensation ideas was to keep the cars in a garage at night. That helped immensely. During the day along the coast, the land had some salt air effects, but as usual, the land wins the heat battle vs. The ocean. So, our cars with a good wax job kept the shine going for as long as we kept up the treatments.

A series of treatments kept the shine going over the years… Vista Wax, Cadillac Blue Coral, Classic Car Wax, and then pure Carnuba Wax.

Jnaki

The only time we used some sort of spray paint was our first hot rod/drag race build. (a 1940 willys coupe.) We painted everything black and the body, fenders, trunk, doors and hood were given the red primer touch of several coats. My brother’s idea was we were going to be doing so much work that a painted surface would make us tip toe around every painted part, making us leery about the build sequence.

The red primer 40 Willys Coupe would reside in a nice protected garage until we worked on it or drove it around during testing days.

Primer paint worked for us and a ton of early hot rod folks, as their own “custom “ paint…” Some even tried to wax the black and/or Red Primer and received a bunch of chuckles at the time…YRMV

 

Any info on this @anthony myrick ?

 

Nope.
Random pic