hi, i'm working on my 1951 ford shoebox. i've installed the shoebox central disc brake kit and i am in the process of making new brake lines. i'm using a TGR flaring kit and 3/16 copper nickel brake line. the line and fittings were a package from amazon. my problem is that after bending and flairing new lines 2 times, they still leak. when they are first installed, i used a motive power bleeder, and pumped it up to 15 psi and all seems ok but when i leave it on over night and come down in the morning, they are leaking. i mentioned that the lines and fittings are from amazon because it seems that the fittings that were included with the kit are fine but the amazon ones leak. i also noticed that the wildwood pressure valves included with the kit , came with their own fittings coated with a red colored thread sealer and they also don't leak. should i be sealing the threads? i thought the seal was made from the lines crushing on the fittings? what is the red thread sealer they use? am i using the wrong fittings or is it my flairs? i'm attaching a couple of pictures so you can see what i'm talking about. i don't think that anyone makes these lines after market but even if they are available, i'd sure like to know what i'm doing wrong so i can learn how to make my own. thanks for any input!
Are you sure that your flare tool is a 45 degree as is typically used for brake lines? Does the angle on your flares match the angle on the fittings?
The angles on those flared ends look different and steeper than what I see when I flare lines with my tool? Not sure you're getting full contact on the flared ends, which can easily result in a bad seal. If what I see is an optical illusion, and they are correct, then I'd make sure you break the fittings loose and retighten them. That sometimes will help seat them and they'll stop leaking if everything else is correct.
Also use a flare wrench on the nut....it's a 6 point box end wrench, missing one of the flats. Looks like you might be using a normal open end wrench, which will not let you tighten the nut sufficiently to seat the flare.
hey guys thanks for the replies. the tool is described on amazon as a, and according to reviews is comparable to eastwoods it is a TGR Professional Brake Line Flaring Tool- 45 Degree Set - Single, Bubble, and Double Flares. as for using a line wrench, yes i agree but the fittings are a combination of SAE and metric and i only have a SAE set so i needed to use what i had. should i try a single flair? seems that it would be easier to obtain a crush seal if it was a single flair.
The seal is on the flair, not on the thread of the fitting. Brake pressure will be several 100 pounds so a leak that happens overnight without any pressure applied surely means the flair is leaking. Sealing the threads will not cure the problem, the red stuff on the threads sounds like an anti seize but doubt it is a sealant. Just a guess!
Not on anything I own or build. No single flares. Like @squirrel said, line wrenches. No pipe dope on the threads. A good flare prevents the brake fluid from getting near the threads. That is fixing the result not the issue. I don't use Nicop so maybe one of the guys that do will know some tricks. I use SS and SS nuts and fittings. Make sure the end of the line is flat. I cut with a band saw as pipe cutters heat harden the SS lines and makes flaring more difficult. Once cut, flatten with a file and ream the ID with a proper tool. Blow it out to remove metal shavings. I spray some gibbs on the line to make the die slide easier. Vice mounted flaring tool from Eastwood. 2 foot pipe added for leverage to make sure I get smooth and complete pulls on the flaring tool.
I think your answer lies with the fact that your tools and parts are coming from unknown suppliers on Amazon. The reviews are unreliable and potentially fake. I know good tools are not cheap, but my Mastercool flaring tool did a few car's brake lines and a redo of a fuel system, not a drop made it past the flares. Squaring up and deburring the tube after cutting is also a must. I can understand and sympathize with wanting to save a buck or two whenever possible, but brakes and steering are the few places where making it rain dollar bills really counts.
One thing I do, especially with when use cheaper fitting is not complete the inverted portion of the flair. Make the bubble and start the invert but do not crank it down tight. When you put the fittings together, it will form the seat.
Use the search function on here to find numerous post about brake line flares and flaring tools. NEVER use a single flare in a brake system, the red sealing paste on the threads are for pipe thread (which the tee and the res valves are pipe with adapters). Make sure it's not coming from the pipe thread adapters or that the flare face doesn't have a small split in it. I always try to use brake products the have an inverted flare and not have to use the adapters as that's another place to leak. Also you can use a GM mechanical brake light switch under the brake pedal to eliminate that whole joint (which is more points to leak from). Here's some links: Res valves with only one pipe threaded adapter: https://ssbc-usa.com/products/a0764 Prop Valve: https://ssbc-usa.com/products/a0730
I just finished doing the brake lines on my 50 ford using nickel copper lines and this tool. No leaks at all
^^^^^It is a sad time when you have to add a warning to remind people not to eat the grease. Sometimes I think it would be best to remove all the warnings and thin the herd.
Hard to tell in the photos, but that does not look anything like a normal 45 degree double flare, sorta looks like an overdone bubble flare. Strange, because the video on Amazon of the tool shows a flare that looks like that??? If you don't have a sample of a normal 45 degree flare, go to the auto parts store and by a pre-made line to compare to. You'r flares should look very similar to a store bought one. Bill
TGR also lists a flaring tool, that had dies for 45, 37, and bubble. Make sure you're using the 45, and the initial "tit" to start the flare.
NO and that is a BIG NO!!! Double flare only on mild steel brake lines. Actually it is not legal to single flare mild steel (or legit alloys) brake lines. You can single flare stainless but not mild steel. Add me to the group who says that those flares aren't quite right. That and I am not quite following the mix match of fittings. Most SAE flare fittings are 45 degree unless they are special industrial fittings. Metric can be either 45 or 37 or (now I need to go look it up) the flare used on newer rigs with metric fittings.
ok, so i got it, no single flairs. i did go to eastwoods site to see what they offer. i've read that the flaring they offer has great reviews. after looking at the tool they offer, it is the exact same as the TGR unit i bought from amazon. the only difference i see is the eastwood sticker. so i have to think it is my technique. i guess it could also be the quality of the fittings/line. is there a brand name i should be looking for?
One tip I didn't see mentioned is to tighten then loosen the fitting 3 times. Then on the 3rd time tighten it down tight. Had a small leak from one line I couldn't stop and did that and it fixed it. Also put a little grease on the tip of the flare tool when you do the flare. That also helped to make the flair easier.
If it's a proper 45° I'd put it operator error. It's hard to "see" how someone is using a tool over a forum. My advice is same as above but I'd try practicing on some short pieces until I was getting the same style of flair as found on a cheap short splice piece from local parts store. What I find interesting is you say you pressurize the system and no problems but sitting over night they leak without any pressure applied..... ..
I will say that my experience with Amazon brake tubing is that in many cases it's under sized. Measure the OD. The style of flare tool you have is a good design. However the clamp blocks only hold the tubing tight during the flaring process if it's the expected OD. If it's under size the tubing slips in the blocks while trying to form the flare.
When using Nicop tubing that is a little softer than steel , don,t tighten the tool all the way down when making the flair, then when you install the line it will form to the seat when tightened up !!!
Very true..........It's like trying to describe the "feel" for tightening wheel bearings......... I don't crank my flares down ass tight on the tool, I leave just a smidge. When they get seated, I let both the line, and the fitting seat together.......never had an issue this way............
IMHO, the flair is wrong, as others have said. Also no thread sealant needed. The fitting in the residual valve has the red thread sealer on it because that end is pipe thread (USS) and not an inverted tapered seat like the other end. I’ve done stainless, steel and NiCopp lines and your flare almost looks as if there wasn’t enough pressure to make the inverted seat after making the bubble. Another thing I discovered when running my pickup’s lines was that the inverted flair seat in a couple of fittings let the nut bottom out in the threads WITHOUT sealing the taper.! Didn’t matter that the nut was tight, the flair wasn’t crushed. Drove me nuts until I replaced the female fitting.
Also, you can replace this three piece fitting with the proper single piece, thus avoiding another couple potential leak points as well as being more compact. Weatherhead 652x3:
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