Technical Whats the fe ford starter install secret?

So after arguing with the starter in the 352 to get it out (big Bendix type) I looked in the Motors Manual for any direction. Turns out they spec dropping the steering arms, I did that, it came out. After the fed govt science project it took to get a new starter I gleefully installed the big ol Bendix and dove under to install. I'm into my next dozen WHAT IN ALL THE FUCKS of trying to get it in that magic spot, which seems all but impossible. Crossmember is in the way, manifold (not the pipe) is in the way, frame is in the way. I'm missing something and hope the FE faithful have a tip to share. Keep cussing it out or is there a preferred position to start from. As always thanks in advance.

 

"installation is the reverse of removal" is what it says in the manual

yeah, I'm a smart ass. Sorry I don't know the answer. But if it kind of fell out, that suggests starting with the heavy end low down.

 

Yeah I'm doing the hokey pokey, big end down, big end up, to the middle, to the outside, dead center, etc. As it feels almost just right the drive hits too close to center or bottoms out going in. I'm missing something. And getting it out with the steering dropped was only "mother...oh there ya go." I even said to myself that I hoped it would go in. Not very light either, so there's that...

 

Fucking gravity won’t help with the installation… yeah I’m no help either.

 

Which vehicle?

 

60 Starliner std 352 4bbl and 3spd automatic.

 

Compare the two. Is the shaft the same length? Also is the bendix in the same position or is it wound up? If memory serves the bendix has to be all the way extended to sneak past the flywheel. It's been a few years since I've had the starter off any of my '63s so I hope I'm leading you in the right direction.

 

There are mini styles for YBlocks…perhaps they will fit the FE..

 

Check the drive housing over , compare the old to the new . I’ve gotten a couple for 390 FE that the opening for the drive gear isn’t deep enough and the flywheel drags on it .

 

I just know that you loose your ass when you are installing on on flat rate. The last one I did was probably 50 years ago and it is a total reverse of how you got it out. By that I mean the same angles and wiggles. I'm thinking that you have to stick the butt end of it up in between the block and crossmember and get it back far enough that you can get the Bendix in but may be wrong. I'm wondering if maybe less than perfect motor mounts are letting the engine sit a tad low.

 

^^^^^^
I'm going to try this. Ass all the way up. With the steering out of the way, I might be able to get a more favorable entry angle. Starters are the same BTW. Drive is like new.

And I promise, I will reply when it's in. Ok, stop with the funny looks...

 

It's been a while, but I think jacking up the engine and pulling the motor mount helps.

 

I’m guessing your talking about the older pull type starter. (58-64)
This is not really a cure for your problem but maybe a last resort type deal or down the road for another project. The late 64-79 starter will work if you put another gear on it to fit the older ring gear. It’s shorter, lighter by about 8 lbs and shares the same mounting bolts.

https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/easy-fix-avoid-1958-1964-big-block-ford-starter-failure/

 

Yes, I have the bottom one. I'm not buying anything extra or special, the car is for sale, I'd like it to stay as is.

 

Well as stated , swap in the later model and be done . Attitude is not the answer , the car will beat you if you allow it to .

 

Invite a friend to try.
How many times have WE(the collective) struggled with a bolt, a nut, or a distributor to fit only to get frustrated and have a buddy stop by and instantly get a header bolt to thread in, a nut in a impossible location to simply screw on or distributor magically drop in exactly where it should.

 

I changed mine on my 64 Marauder, seems to me I had to slide it up and forward towards the motor mount and then slid it straight back. Also I had to turn the wheel all the way one way or another and I have dual exhaust. Kind of a pain because of the weight. It was a few years back. Take a break and a deep breath and try again it will fall in eventually. Larry

 

As I already had to nearly subpoena info to get the right starter I'm using what I have. I didn't set out to modify or upgrade, and this beautiful old girl has to stay the way it is, was. It sat for over 30 years, hence the need on such a low mile car.

 

on our '60 with y-block , I lift it up towards the exh. manifold, end opposite the drive end first, swing it towards the bell and stick in place. mine seems to have one magic spot to get the drive to clear the flex plate and bell and frame!

 

I did a lot of those back in the day and they are a PIA. It is easier if you make sure the bendix is all the way out. It is one of those things that you fight and fight and then it slides right in. Be sure to put all three bolts back once you get it in position.

 

Have you tried moving the car to another location?

It sounds like you're parked over a "gravity hot-spot"!

 

Had this happen a few times. Finally learned to just walk away for a few minutes and come back.
Always amazing how that works out. No chance in hell it would fit, damn thing ends up installing itself.

 

Have you tried cursing it! As a life long Ford guy that almost never works but if your buddies are hanging out with you it's at least entertaining for them. Hate it when you finally get it to fit and the starter looks like you drug it across three miles of barb wire fence.

 

Been a while for me, the last I changed was in a '64 wagon in 1978... in a blizzard with the car perched on a snow bank. I do not recall it being a hassle. I don't recall if I had to turn the pitman arm one way or the other.

 

Well, I gave up on an untouched factory SBC (OT here) laying my back, 30 pounds of tubular BS. I couldn’t get it back in the way however the heck it came out.
Www.summitracing.com and a mini starter was here two days later.
Issue solved

I realize the OP doesn’t want to go that route, but I can’t fight much anymore, especially iron.

 

I love this joint. I really like the participation on stuff like this. Here's all the news fit to print.

Ok, Rock auto has the starter needed, for $107+ tax and shipping. It's almost 20lbs, so shipping would be substantial and dependent upon who has it. I'd seen the Motor Trend get the drive and kiss your troubles bye-bye story, and tried to simply get the right starter vs a drive, a different FE starter, et al. My local Orielly folks are awesome we sorted thru the usual abbreviated product info over the phone and settled on what appeared to be a late 64 starter. BZZZZT! thanks for playing. What came in was what I had already. It only took 2hrs to get vs 2 days, so there's that. And 60 bucks. Screw it Jocko you're selling the car, put it back in. But wait, there's more. If you act now you'll find there are 2 shaft lengths. 1 a ½" shorter than needed, so now the drive won't fit the new one. You getting all this? The proper one was available, $2 less, but next morning. Got it, happy, drive went on easy enuff, and now "No way Jocko, you know that no good deed goes unpunished." and the resultant struggle of WTFs with a 20lb starter over my fkn tired old head. So what would you do, spend $58 and have it immediately (damn near) or nearly twice that in hopes of a mod to save future efforts? Would it be the #1 selling point that I upgraded the starter in a car that may end up with a 390 or 428 in it anyways some day down the road? I restore for a living so...(?).

So anyways, my beloved HAMB brethren, that's how I ended up here asking a collective of shop pals if there's a secret handshake to stick this long bastid back in. Thanks, enjoy the show.

 

is there a trick about moving the bendix in or out before you install the starter?

 

It's kinda fixed in place. I'm not even totally sure how it works looking at it, and it has this overrun ratchet deal incorporated into it. There's springs inside the cup deal that holds the gear, and the moment you just look at it fast enuff it goes back to rest. As noted above there's 1 sweet spot in the opening for the drive to sneak past the flywheel. Later I'll post the "discovery" of how I got it out.

 

Oh, it's a complicated mechanism. There's a catch of some type, and that nasty spring, and I forget how it works. Sucks getting old. I played with one on a T a few years ago, and some time in the past year I worked on one in an FE mid 60s Tbird.

 

might use jumper cables and apply power to the starter for a second, see if it pops it out?