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Technical Why hairpin radius rods?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by treb11, Dec 11, 2023.

  1. treb11
    Joined: Jan 21, 2006
    Posts: 4,126

    treb11
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Ok, they are pleasant to look at. With only one pivot point, they function just the same as split wishbones. Four bars with parallel rods function better. Were they developed to make routing of the steering links easier? To look like the drag racers?
     
    Tow Truck Tom likes this.
  2. F-head
    Joined: Oct 20, 2007
    Posts: 1,482

    F-head
    Member

    Makes it easier to get the tie rod to clear with a dropped axle
     
  3. DDDenny
    Joined: Feb 6, 2015
    Posts: 22,393

    DDDenny
    Member
    from oregon

    "Pleasant"
    Hell, when they're done right they are a thing of beauty!
    And effective.
     
  4. One major difference in function from a split wishbone. Hair pins can actually flex meaning less suspension bind. I plan on running hairpins with a tube axle myself for that very reason
     
  5. DDDenny
    Joined: Feb 6, 2015
    Posts: 22,393

    DDDenny
    Member
    from oregon

    My one-off set of hairpins.
    DSCN1626.JPG
     
  6. JohnLewis
    Joined: Feb 19, 2023
    Posts: 655

    JohnLewis
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Someone with a Hank Hill avatar, I would expect them to know everything. Unless you're a Dale Gribble. (I'm kidding around).
     
    treb11 likes this.
  7. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 22,673

    alchemy
    Member

    You can adjust caster with hairpins, so better than split wishbones.
     
  8. Dave G in Gansevoort
    Joined: Mar 28, 2019
    Posts: 3,743

    Dave G in Gansevoort
    Member
    from Upstate NY

    Like all things we emulate on our hot rods, it seems that hairpins were first used on racecars. The oldest picture that I've seen dates back to the 30s and racecars built for dirt track racing, using mostly Ford suspension components. I would bet that the design predates that, and was used because they are lighter, and flex compared to split wishbones. And they .ook so good!
     
  9. Dean Lowe
    Joined: May 20, 2008
    Posts: 22,042

    Dean Lowe
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I love the 4 bar selling point. No axle twist throughout the travel.
    How much travel does the average street rod have? Maybe 3" total? ;)
     
  10. twenty8
    Joined: Apr 8, 2021
    Posts: 3,683

    twenty8
    Member

    The tube axle will effectively be a very rigid anti-roll bar that will transfer m***ive loads to the hairpin mounting points.
    Be very careful that they don't fail.......:eek::eek::eek:
    I-beam axles twist a lot more, which makes them more suitable for hairpins.
     
  11. Frames
    Joined: Apr 24, 2012
    Posts: 5,289

    Frames
    Member

    I prefer the way I bend my hair pins versis the more rounded shape. My 2 cents. BACKERS 007.jpg
     
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  12. Frames
    Joined: Apr 24, 2012
    Posts: 5,289

    Frames
    Member

    Microflex bushings to allow a little movement. What a bunch of B S that is. They are rock hard. If I remember right I clearenced them just img183.jpg a little instead of press in.
     
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  13. Fjant
    Joined: Mar 17, 2011
    Posts: 220

    Fjant
    Member
    from Sweden

    the wishbone have a fixed connection in the axle, but the hair-pinns have radius rods connected to the axle, which I believe give the axle a better vertical travel flex possibility? but that's just my thoughts.
     
  14. do not know that it has been mentioned, no one was probably even thinking about it when they first built them but they also lend a degree or two of adjustability on castor angle.

    For me it has always been a looks thing. They work and look good doin it.
     
  15. Dave G in Gansevoort
    Joined: Mar 28, 2019
    Posts: 3,743

    Dave G in Gansevoort
    Member
    from Upstate NY

    The comments regarding hairpins on tube axles acting like a really stiff antirollbar is accurate. More so with split wishbones. It's probably why most if not all racecars before 4 bars with tube axles cornered with the inside front wheel a foot off the track...

    Just saying
     
  16. 1971BB427
    Joined: Mar 6, 2010
    Posts: 9,816

    1971BB427
    Member
    from Oregon

    They look great, and are lighter too. Plus steering clearance is a plus.
    [​IMG]
     
  17. jaracer
    Joined: Oct 4, 2008
    Posts: 3,046

    jaracer
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    You mean like this?
    11inMud.jpg
     
  18. Ease of steering component locating, providing adjustment of axle caster, they look good (even better when chromed!)...what's not to like. 20220625_115655.jpg
     
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  19. Relic Stew
    Joined: Apr 17, 2005
    Posts: 1,241

    Relic Stew
    Member
    from Wisconsin

    Early hairpins were made by pinching wishbones, like on this T from the 1932 movie "Hot Saturday".
    Hot Saturday - 1.jpg
     
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  20. Relic Stew
    Joined: Apr 17, 2005
    Posts: 1,241

    Relic Stew
    Member
    from Wisconsin

    Hairpins and split wishbones single pivot point work with the pre-'35 side steering box and drag link location having coincident pivot points. Changing to 4-bar likely requires altering the steering to give parallel travel to prevent bump steer.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2023
  21. Marty Strode
    Joined: Apr 28, 2011
    Posts: 9,685

    Marty Strode
    Member

    When I built the Spalding Copy, this is what they needed to look like. IMG_5908.JPG IMG_5910.JPG
     
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  22. Dean Lowe
    Joined: May 20, 2008
    Posts: 22,042

    Dean Lowe
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

     
  23. deucemac
    Joined: Aug 31, 2008
    Posts: 1,647

    deucemac
    Member

    I am using hairpin radius rods on my roadster with a dropped I beam axle. The hair pins are mounted fore and aft in poly bushings and uses a bat wing mount to the axle. Not one problem in 15 plus years of driving the snot out of it everywhere. I believe that the poly bushings allow flex that tie rod ends and clevis' do not.
     
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  24. Ned Ludd
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 5,507

    Ned Ludd
    Member

    Light weight, packaging advantages e.g. for tie rod etc., adjustability, and, importantly, ease of fabrication using the range of tools available to small constructors.

    As regards "flexing a little", I don't see it. Hairpins are pretty much triangulated but for what is needed to accommodate the various frame pivot details which have been used, which I submit arose mainly out of practicalities of fabrication. If I were to design a suspension arm to "flex a little" it wouldn't end up looking like a hairpin.
     
    2OLD2FAST likes this.
  25. How strong are they? A guy at work (when I worked) had a Model A truck with hair pins and in a panic stop they collapsed. I don't think they were home made hair pins, I'm sure he bought them from somewhere, don't know what brand. This truck has disc brakes and larger than what I would use radial tires so this may have something to do with it. But they collapsed letting the axle move rearward breaking the brake hoses, this let him crash into the car that pulled out in front of him.
    Anyone else hear of something like this?
     
  26. krylon32
    Joined: Jan 29, 2006
    Posts: 10,773

    krylon32
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Nebraska

    When I started my ch***is business in the early 80's it was all about 4 bar suspension. Gradually thru the 90's my customers starting asking about hairpins and by 2000 that was just about all I was doing. I don't think I did a 4 bar after about 2005? Pete & Jake's made me a custom length and design hairpin that was a little different from their production unit. They simply called it Cornhusker style. Thru the years I moved toward more tie rod end rear adjusters over the urethane bushed adjusters. Tie rod ends allow for a little more flexibility as the front end motions twist the back adjuster.
     
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  27. Frames
    Joined: Apr 24, 2012
    Posts: 5,289

    Frames
    Member

    Hairpin on the right. Single rod on the left. I built this car with parts from a 5 year old race car. Owner/driver had a very tight budget. Cross torsion rear suspension. Torsion bars were junk. The very first race and the first time driver ever made the feature. Chuck Acheson.jpg WON after starting dead last.
     
  28. ct1932ford
    Joined: Dec 3, 2010
    Posts: 13,260

    ct1932ford
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Wishbone, Hairpins = Traditional ------ Four Bar , Billet **** = Not traditional
    End of story! :eek:
     
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  29. Automotive Stud
    Joined: Sep 26, 2004
    Posts: 4,391

    Automotive Stud
    Member

    Sounds like an excuse for rear ending the guy, they probably collapsed after the hit.
     
  30. stubbsrodandcustom
    Joined: Dec 28, 2010
    Posts: 2,597

    stubbsrodandcustom
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Spring tx

    I personally hate hairpins, Bones for life here.
     
    Rocket88NZ likes this.

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