Technical Help! Sludgy and dry motor oil in 354 hemi

Hello I’m building a traditional 1930 ford, I recently got my hands on a 1956 New Yorker 354 hemi to install in my hotrod. The engine looks to be untouched for years. Everything looks good on the engine. I poured some marvel mystery oil in each cylinder. When I took off valve cover to see how the condition of it looks inside there is just layers of dryed motor oil from sitting for so long how can I clean this? Is it okay to just pour new oil and run it like this, should I clean it if so how? Is there anything fluid I can pour in the engine to remove this dry oil?

 

My opinion and others will vary is that I would Drain the old oil out. Then pour in some new oil and run it through a few heat cycles and just keep changing the oil and if everything runs good. I probably just keep doing that forever but that's just me.

 

I have taken the oil pan and valve covers off a Pontiac 455 that looked like that and power washed it with hot soapy water to clean it out. Then I soaked it down with WD 40, got the covers back on and fill with clean oil. If the water is hot enough, it heats the metal enough to dry it back out quickly. The engine I washed is still running 10 years later with no issues, other then what a 120K engine normally has. A good degreaser will clean 90% of that out.

 

Thank you for the advice, I was thinking of doing that also of pressure washing it to clean the most of all that dry oil but didn’t know if that was a good idea or would work

 

I'm not saying to do this, but an old instructor I had told about cleaning sludged up engines with Tide. He said to drain the oil and change the oil filter. Fill the crankcase with one quart of oil and four quarts of a water and Tide mixture. Run the engine at a fast idle (1200 - 1500 rpm) for long enough to get it to operating temperature. Drain the oil and change the filter. Fill the engine with fresh oil and run up to operating temperature. Drain the oil and change the filter and you are done. I never saw this in action, but other instructors at the school said they had seen him do this. He said that water and Tide together make a fairly good lubricant and running the engine under a no load condition wouldn't hurt it.

 

By the way, I would definitely drop the oil pan and clean it well along with the oil pump screen. I would also s****e off all the old, dried sludge I could from under the valve covers. Fill it with fresh oil and run it for a half hour or so and then drain the oil. I would probably drop the pan again to see what is in it paying close attention to the oil pump screen. I'd pull the valve covers and check the drain back holes. If it looked pretty clean I'd fill it with oil and run it.

 

Remember the Marvel each time.
I can't imagine clean oil just sitting in the heads.
There must be dirt with it. Marvel will help it along

 

I would pull the oil pan, intake and lifter valley pan, rockers, oil pump, timing cover etc. Clean all that properly. S****e out all the goop you can from the heads and lifter valley, you could further clean with solvent or kerosene and a brush. Check the timing chain, oil pump, rockers for wear and address as needed. Check rods for abnormal play. Lube cylinders/pistons with marvel and thin motor oil. Put it back together and prime oil pump/filter/system, making sure oil shows up at the rockers and lifters, and that all the valves move as they should. Then put it all back together and run the recommended amout of marvel in fresh oil for the first few oil changes. This would be a pretty safe bet, and allow you to catch mechanical issues before they do more damage.
Seafoam and marvel in the gas is also a big help for cleaning up the carbon that is certainly built up on valves and rings.

 

If that were mine, I'd take it apart, s****e and clean what I could easily get to with s****ers, take the parts to a machine shop with a hot tank or washer and pay them to give it a good bath. Once done, you can ***ess what the condition is. If you're lucky, treat it to a gasket, ring and bearing set, ***emble, paint and detail.

Your hemi is almost 70 years old, it's earned a bit of care.

 

Everytime I try a short cut I eat it and choke. If the engine is valuable to you, remove as much as you are capable of and clean it like you were overhauling it. I recently took apart a small Ford that had sat for years. I removed the intake and took the air hose to it. Large flakes and a dirt storm followed. It still was a long ways from being clean. I was just curious of how much residue would come out and how much was removed.

 

That is pretty typical of an old engine that has been "untouched for years". The sludge is from running the non-detergent oil that was so prevalent back when that was a new engine. Plus they had no PCV to pull clean air through the engine and burn up the vapors inside. Those vapors settle on the inside of the engine and after many years build up to what you see in that one. Drop the pan and clean all the sludge out, make sure your oil pump screen is clear. The lifter galley will also be full of that **** so if you're ambitious pull the intake and valley cover to clean it out. S****e as much as you can from the rocker ***emblies as well. The good thing about that sludge is it isn't abrasive so you needn't worry about it wearing the bearings and such. It does tend to plug oil pump screens and other orifices though, when it is loosened. The old timers used to run a 50/50 mix of oil and diesel/kerosene in them, and let them idle for a while to flush the stuff out.


By the way, I'm not aware of a 1957 Chrysler New Yorker having come from the factory with a 354. If it is indeed the original engine, then you either have a 1956 New Yorker, or a 1957 New Yorker with a 392 hemi.

^^^This would be an interesting experiment to try on a dirty old engine, just to see what the outcome would be.^^^

 

Overhaul the whole damn thing if ya want it to work properly. Shortcuts end in disaster. It ain't cheap to do but you will be happier

 

Thank you for the help Eddsspeed, I might just do what you suggested.

sorry I meant 1956 it came out of a 56 New Yorker

 

When I did my hemi (and all the early hemis are the same ) the oil p***ages in the rocker arms, stands and shafts were blocked with petrified oil that had to be drill out. If you dont do it right it will never be any good

 

This is what I did with my 331 Hemi. Worked well.

Dave

 

Yes, as @Bert Kollar mentioned, the rocker shafts and ***ociated hardware definitely do get sludged up.

 

I wouldn't try to s****e or clean anything in the engine ***embly.... Clean the rockers completely, drop and thoroughly clean the pan, check and clean the oil pump screen. Leave the rest alone! The **** that you knock loose and don't get out of the engine WILL lead to blocked p***ages and trouble down the road. Install fresh oil (along with Marvel Mystery Oil) and filter, run to temperature for a half hour or so, repeat as evaluated on the dipstick. The voice of experience here... I lost a Pontiac 326 by only "s****ing and wiping" the lifter galley.
Good luck!

 

Personally, I would completely dis***emble the engine and have the block hot tanked or pressure cleaned at a machine shop. If the areas you can see look like that, what is lurking inside the main oil rifles?? You guys all probably have better luck with just cleaning what you can see, but if I don’t do the job 100% complete, it will most certainly bite me in the ***.

 

Ebbsspeed has you on the right track,,,,,I have been told many times about draining the oil and replacing with diesel fuel .
Run it for 10-15 minutes at an idle ,,,,,,,then flush it all out.

As to an earlier post,,,,there is no way I would use any water inside a running engine to clean it out,,,,JMO .

It would be nice to clean the rocker shafts inside,,,,but it all depends on how much you want to dis***emble on the engine .

As far as dropping the pan,,,,,,you dont have to,,,,you can easily drain the old oil,,,,,,then refill with a solvent,,,or gasoline,,,,,,and let it soak .
After about an hour or two,,,,,drain the gas,,,,,,there will be a pile of **** come out,,,,,,but the pan and pickup should be reasonably clean inside .
You can also use acetone,,,,or some other strong solvent degreaser.
If you choose,,,,you can repeat this a couple times until the cleaner comes out fairly clean .
You won’t be out much money,,,,,just a little time.

Then you could try the diesel trick,,,,,,and it would probably work well .

On the rocker shafts,,,,,you could just remove the front plugs on the shafts and flush the ***emblies.
Use a rifle brush to dig the crud out ,,,,flush well,,,,then install new plugs in the shafts .

Like I said,,,,I don’t know how much you wish to do to get this running .
Myself,,,,,if I was gonna rebuild it,,,,I would take it apart .
However,,,,if you don’t want to rebuild,,,,I have started several old engines before after little work and they have worked fine .
It all depends on the condition when it was parked,,,,if it was knocking already,,,,it probably won’t be a good candidate either way without extensive maintenance.

Let us know what you decide,,,,,,,if it was just parked as a good runner,,,,and is not locked up,,,,it should clean up alright .

Tommy

 

I think i will just play it save and get me a gasket set and dis***emble everything and clean it all and re***emble it after everything looks good and clean

 

So glad you came to this conclusion. When you get to the rocker shafts just do one side at a time so you have an ***embled unit for reference.
As long as you don't put the block in a caustic hot tank the cam bearings will survive but cleaning the block is then more work.
Keep us posted on your endeavour.

 

Absolutely I’ll keep you guys posted. Thanks for all the help!

 

Dis-***emble is the best way.
I 'have' put a couple quarts of transmission fluid with 5 quarts of old engine oil and let the engine idle until it gets to operating temp (or higher). The trans fluid is high detergent AND it thins the old oil AND by over filling it lets the oil/trans mixture slosh around in the pan to help break loose the crude.
While the engine is hot drain the oil/trans mixture out. (You can hear the chunks of crude come out !)
Replace filter and add a quart of trans fluid to the new 4 quarts of oil .
Cross your fingers and give it a test run.........
6sally6

 

Nothing wrong with pulling it completely apart and cleaning everything, looking it all over for needed repairs then replace all the seals, they are probably as bad as the dried oil, new gaskets then you know what you have.

 

This is exactly what I was going to say. no matter how you clean the external/internal stuff with s****ers and brushes, its those small internal p***ages that you need to get clean. Some people run gun cleaning brushes through them to loosen and remove the crud, but even that can be somewhat iffy. I bought some long drill bits and ran them thru the p***ages on an engine I'm building. That was after I had pressure washed it and soaked it in a cleaning tank full of diesel fuel. When I take it to be machined, I will have the shop clean it again. Whatever resides in those small oil galleys and p***ages will affect your engine later. Yes its more expensive, but you will learn a lot from doing it right and have a better engine in the process. Seldom do these engines install and run right from the git go with no problems, and most people find it easier to fix the issues before installation....

 

What he said.

 

So glad you are taking the safe route and cleaning this thoroughly.
I've used the oil/ATF mix for beaters and it works, BUT this is a great old engine and deserves the best. As said, the rocker shafts are a tight spot that requires a bit more attention. Note location and clocking!

When I was doing induction services, the trainer explained it like this. You want all the junk in the intake tract to slowly melt away, leaving a clean surface. You do NOT want an avalanche to suddenly dump it all out at once, that can clog stuff downstream. You don't want the intake valve hung up or the piston rings to get a tables**** of gunk all at once. Same with cleaning inside an engine, you want it to slowly slide into the sump and not clog the pickup.

 

Found this
https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/early-hemi-rocker-***emblies-when-to-rebuild.247464/

 

Anyone else old enough to remember what old 60's paraffin based oil looks like in an engine? Needs to be cleaned and run a wire down all the drain back holes

 

https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Earl...MI_K-NspSmgwMVxKJaBR2Bog8GEAQYASABEgKom_D_BwE