Projects Tim's (aka anothercarguy) 1938 Ford Club Cabriolet Build Thread

Thanks Joel, I too am leaning towards covering them.

 

It's amazing how complex something like a seat heater has now become in modern cars.

You did a great job of improving the looks of those seats! I want to use aftermarket seat heaters in my roadster seats. That will help extend the season for a roadster in Alberta, I think.

 

Loads more nice work, not seen the last two pages of updates until now.

 

Looks really good.

 

Thanks for the kind words guys...it's very encouraging.

I've made a little more progress, so thought it might be time for an update. I placed the front seats in the car and realized I will need significant risers to sit properly in the car. As I was mapping them out in my head, I started thinking that I should probably get the back seats figured out first so I'm not continually tripping on and banging into the front seat risers when working on the backseat. I dug through the pile of sticks and stuff that were just thrown inside the car when I bought it. The side tins were the first item I recognized, and they were/are quite rusty. So they got a quick pass with the 3m stripping disk. I'm still not sure whether I will repair and use these yet...but it let me start to assemble the back seat area.

After most of the de-rusting was complete, I began to mock them in place. The next piece was the seat bottom front riser. Old Henry, being the clever and resourceful SOB that he was, gave the club cabriolet the same floor pan as the rest of the Ford body styles. This means, the floor pan requires an additional riser in front of the the normal steel riser. Henry chose an oak board to fulfill the task, and I had that piece, though it wasn't in the greatest shape either. The plank bolts to a couple forged brackets at the base of the b-pillars just behind the doors. I believe that these brackets along with the oak plank are also designed to add structure to the rear quarter panel of the cabriolet.

Next up was the rest of the pile of miscellaneous bits and pieces of wood that I had piled up that more closely resembled firewood than cabriolet parts. I reached out to fellow HAMB'r @55onefifty as he has a friend with one of these cars, and he kindly photographed approximately how those pieces of firewood were supposed to be assembled (thanks again!). So after a bit of drilling, cutting and assembling I was able to assemble the wooden rear "bulkhead" (1 cross piece and 2 vertical side pieces) and tie it into the side tins. The side pieces had to be shortened to clear the rear wheel tubs.

I was then able to screw together the rest of the pieces that I had into the remains of the original seat backrest that "clips" over the rear bulkhead cross brace.

As best I can tell, the top of the rear seat rest also serves as the resting point for the folded convertible top. I had assumed their would be a well for the top frame, but apparently that's not the case...so if you look at the previous photo, I have clamped a piece of sheet metal to the height of the original rear seat back so I know where the convertible frame folds and rests. Now that I knew how and where the original back seat fit, it was time to start fitting the pieces I intended to use...specifically, I had the rear seat that was donated by the same car as the front buckets. I placed the backrest framework roughly in place and realized that they were going to be way to tall. They needed to be shortened by 3 and a 1/2 inches.

After they were sectioned, they fit into place pretty well. They were even the correct width to fit between the wheel wells and side tins (pure luck!).
Next up, was the seat bottom, but my luck ran out there. The seat bottom is about 4 inches too wide. In order to keep the upholstery lined up, I'll remove 2" per side on the outside bolsters, keeping the rest of the seat bottom the same as factory.

Next, I stripped the rear seat bottom to get to the "birdcage" under the foam and modified it to bring it to the width I need. This mostly involved cutting, bending, and re-welding the wires into the desired size and shape.

I then decided the oak seat riser plank might better be replaced with sheet metal, which would allow access holes to be cut in order to give access to the hidden compartments that were otherwise lost. I also decided by plug welding it to the floor and floor pan "seat riser" that it would provide additional strength to the floor and the B-pillar brackets. So I made templates and then folded sheet metal.


And to close out the update, here's a photo with the seat bottom and seat backs complete with shortened and narrowed foam mocked into place. I still need to finish up the mounts for the seat backs and figure out what I want to do about the rest of the rear bulkhead wood frame and side tins. I also have some work in re-stitching the leather seat covers to conform to the new sizes (but the good news is that it's easier to make them smaller than larger!). Considering how tight the quarters are back there, the seats are pretty comfortable.

 

Wow! Nice work Tim. Going to be an awesome car full of great details.

 

Excellent Work Tim! My 39 convertible coupe has always had a very rudimentary seat with a flat panel for the back rest. If I move the front seat all the forward I can get an adult back there for a short ride. Yours looks almost roomy by comparison. Thanks for the update and clear photo's of your work.

Sam

 

Hey, Tim;
Nice progress & mods.
On the front seats: are you going to keep the "features" & use elect sw's to replicate the "confusers"? (Mechanical-memory is cheating... ). Would probably be worth it - mini-sw's/buttons in a cool (hidden?) panel? Anyways, as for the front seat risers; what I've found to work well, is to have the seat-sliders angles at ~15*->30*. Seat cushion can be ~ same angle as oem or as needed. Might require a bit of room, but I'd bet a whole lot less than the oem riser; & still leave room under seat for storage. Maybe your wife n friends(even the eventual-future-buyer) that may drive the car are all the same height/leg-length, but wife n me, are very different. So instead of just sliding only forwards/backwards, using angled sliders gets altitude as well as length adj, in a fairly short distance. & then the additional adj are for fine-tuning, instead of maxxing them out in an attempt to get comfortable, or even to just drive the thing. In the next cars, I'm seriously considering fully adj(forward/backward seat cushion only to the extent needed for enough seat-back-tilting) seats, but all pedals on a moving platform, & at least a telescoping column(arms-length difference). Street-roddy? Well, no --- idk=maybe, but it does solve a few ergonomic problems.
Marcus...

 

Nice work Tim.

 

Thanks for the suggestions Marcus. Indeed, the electric motors of the seat are being kept, but I've used switches out of a GM product (which don't need a "confuser" in line to interpret). I wanted to maintain a common look and feel to seat adjustment that we've grown accustomed to in our daily drivers. When I mock the front seats in place I'll experiment with the angled risers.

 

Thanks again for the feedback and positive comments guys. Progress is continuing albeit slowly. I've been doing a bunch of head scratching and imagineering...I'm trying to take into account how the upholstery and interior panels will go together at the same time as I'm fitting the seats. I'm replacing the wood rear seat structure with metal, so I folded up 3 cross braces. The top one doubles as sort of a package tray that the convertible top bows rests on when folded down (from what I can tell, when originally designed, the top bows may have rested on the top of the rear seat back when folded down...and I didn't want that). Then I made a middle brace that captures and supports the top of the rear seat back. And, finally a lower brace that supports the bottom of the seat back as well as provides a pocket for the seat bottom and also isolates that area from the trunk.
A blurry photo showing the bottom brace with the pocket for the seat bottom.

A better shot of the package tray area.
A photo showing the package tray with the folded top irons resting in place.

Next up, the metal shop becomes an upholstery shop which meant dragging out the sewing machine.

I started to fit the seat covers to the newly shaped seat bottom foam to determine where they required narrowing and re-shaping. I made a template of the required shape and marked the panel to be cut.
After picking and taking apart the factory threaded seams, I cut the panel down to the new narrow shape required (leaving a 1/2" seam allowance).

I use staples to hold the panels together temporarily before stitching them back together (if you look closely, the staples are visible). I also mark the line I needed to follow with the sewing machine.

Here's the re-shaped seat cover after the panels were re-connected but before re-mounting it back on the frame and foam. I still have lots more to do, but this is a start.

 

Go man, go! You are a multi talented man for sure.

 

Looks nice and Stout Tim! So you even do your own sewing!!!

 

Yeah..., I think of it like welding with thread.

 

I like that! No messy grinding either.

 

Thanks guys. To be honest, I'm early in the learning curve of the upholstery aspect of our hobby. I bought the sewing machine after being frustrated with upholstery guys that seemed incapable of meeting a deadline, charged what I believed to be excessive rates, and/or delivered sub-par work. On the flip side, I'm also aware of some really great upholsterers, but because they're good, they require booking a couple plus years out, and I'm unable to predict to the week a couple years out when I'll be ready for upholstery (so, that's on me). So, my brain will remain active as I try to learn another new skill.

 

Looking good Tim. Necessity is the mother of invention, right? I've learned to do lots of stuff through necessity (read; no money)

 

First off...wishing all you guys good health, safety, fun and happiness for 2024!

Secondly, it might be time for another update...I've continued plucking away on the seat project. One of the things I did was salvage pretty much every square inch of the matching material from all surfaces of the doner vehicle. This combined with my collection of foam in various sizes and thicknesses as well as seat and interior parts strewn about pretty much had my shop looking like an upholsterer's wrecking yard!
As I noted in my earlier post, the rear seat back rest had to be shortened 3 1/2". Cutting the steel and foam was easy enough, but this also meant the original seat covers had to be shortened. I picked apart the original sewing, measured, marked, cut, shortened and re-assembled the components into new shorter seat covers.

View attachment 5934217
The rear seat backs also had an array of shoulder seat belt mounts, baby seat brackets and headrests...none of which are necessary for the '38. So while the seat covers were apart, I added a couple extra seams and removed the offending panels and used them as patterns for their less holy replacements.
After scavenging through the various pieces of extra matching material I was able to strategically convert some of the panels into patches in the size and shapes I needed. After a bunch of measuring, sewing, measuring some more, test fitting, cutting, picking out threads again, sewing again etc...I was able to come up with a suitable finished rear seat. I still need to "slap" the leather a bit more and may even try my luck with the steamer to help the leather relax into it's new position. I sat in the seat and it's surprisingly comfortable. I'm happy with the outcome.
Next up will be re-doing the top of the front seat backrest panel to eliminate the headrest holes in much the same manner as the rear seat backrest. This will be followed by making the front seat mounts and then installing seatbelt/mounting points.

 

Looks very nice.
Marcus...

 

That looks like it was quite the puzzle! The finished product looks great !!

 

Thanks for the encouragement guys.

Here's a minor update. I wasn't going to document any of this, but then I thought upholstery is a phase that most of us farm out, so it might help somebody...so here goes. I plan on running the front seat without the headrests, but after removing them there is still the telltale mounting holes.

So, while I have the sewing machine and all my little patches of material out...I stripped the seat covers off the front seat.


In order to improve the flexibility of the seat cover, I carefully fed the listing wire out. It takes a bit of finessing as the wire forms a complete horseshoe shape and has little hooks on the ends.
Next is to address the holes for the headrests in the foam.
I made a couple of round "plugs" from some of the foam that covered other pieces of the doner car. I then glued them into place with 3M "77" spray contact adhesive.
Once the small plugs were glued into place, I made a couple larger plugs to fill in the remainder of the recess and also glued them into place.
After they were glued in place, I cut them as flush as I could using an electric carving knife (this is my shop tool...not from kitchen...you only make that mistake once!! It turns out it's not as great an idea as you would think to use the kitchen turkey baster to suck up coolant from the pockets of the intake manifold for example!).
I then cut a piece of soft 1/2" thick foam to glue over top of the plugs. I did this so none of the patches would telegraph through the seat cover when installed.
And, once the 1/2" foam was glued in place, I shaped it with a small sander.
The finished foam repairs.
I didn't take any photos of picking out the seams, making templates, cutting new material to fit or sewing the new panel into place...but the first seat is done and the second is underway. Here's a pic showing the before and after. One of the questions will be why I didn't use the existing seams and replace a larger piece. The simple answer, none of the remaining scavanged pieces were large enough. Also, the new seams on the top panel line up with two original seams on the backside of the seats.

I know it's not possible, but when standing in front of the seats and comparing the two, the seat without the headrest holes gives the illusion of being shorter.

All for now.

 

Again, really nice work! I'm interested in the upholstery modification process so keep it coming.

 

It's been a long time since I added anything to this thread. The build is not dead, it's been on the back burner while I completed a bunch of other stuff and projects. Some were even HAMB friendly (like building a new engine for the '32), did some travelling in the '32 (https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/good-ol-fashion-hot-rod-road-trip.1318366/), spent time visiting family back east, did some fishing, home repairs, daily driver maintenance etc.. But, as the weather begins to show signs of fall, it's time to get back onto the '38. I started this thread with the inspirational photoshop rendering below thanks to @themoose



But as time has gone on, we've waffled on the color black. I like black cars, especially when they're straight as arrows, but I know how much work it is to maintain a black car (my roadster was black). We spent some time leaning towards Washington blue (but it's not much easier to maintain than black). While at Sam's (@The 39 guy) earlier this week, he showed a color chart with an early pale green that caught my wife's eye. The idea of a pale, easy to maintain color had appeal. After a bit of research, we came up with a Fiat color that had the feel of the original green. Thanks again to @themoose for the revised inspirational rendering.


So, all that to say...work is once again resuming on the '38.

 

It's an absolutely incredible build. I really liked how you talked about what you do on the door skin repairs and warpage. That's some great info. Please keep the updates coming on this build.

 

Hi Tim! thanks for the visit and the brakes! I like that green. So far my friends I have asked for an opinion on the green color have been less than enthusiastic about it. Of course ,they don't have to maintain the black finish nor prepare the body work to receive it!

 

Nice to see you're gearing up again, can wait to see what you are doing! I look forward to getting my build thread going again this fall too. The fiat color you talk about is the color I think I just painted on my friend David's Dodge convertible.

 

Just glanced back through some of the work on this, just great stuff going on.
Colour, I love this colour, would look great with a brown roof to match the interior....

 

Really enjoy the upholstery bits. Having done my own I can tell you your posts offer more help than 99% of the published books on the subject that I have found.

 

Thanks...I wish I knew 40 years ago, what I know now...it would have saved a lot of time and bondo. Hopefully it proves helpful to someone else.

Thanks Sam...I'll probably still prepare it like it's going black, but won't have to worry so much about dust and dirt after the paint is on and the car is on the road.

Thanks Ed...I'm looking forward to your build carrying on as well. I liked David's Dodge, but I hadn't put 2 and 2 together...very interesting. I like the looks of that...and more importantly, so does my wife, Holly.

Thanks Neil...might need to look into a brown roof.

Thanks Tim...I bet I have most of those books as well...frankly, I found some of the youtube upholstery videos to be quite helpful. I believe the videos I found to be most helpful were from a guy named Cechaflo. He doesn't speak at all (so he's not one of those long winded blah blah blah guys that you just want to fast forward to get to the point), it's simple slow hands-on showing how he does things.

I've spent the last couple days in the shop getting re-acquainted with our project. Picking up where I left off in the rear seat area. One small thing that kind of bugged me was the level of finish at the top of the quarter panels at the B-pillars. It always looked rough and not totally finished to me.


So, I melted out the lead, made a couple small metal patches and welded it all up.


Next up was the rear seat side tins (here's a picture I included earlier as a reminder)...they weren't in the best of shape, and they were designed to work in conjunction with the original wood (which is now long gone).

I cleaned them up sone, cut out the bad rusty parts, made some new flanges that would work with my metal substructure and screwed them into place as a starting point. This is the starting point of the driver's side.

I debated whether to keep the deep inset which originally had some wood screwed to it to make an arm rest. I felt the shape felt awkward. And, as the guy that will be upholstering the car at a later day, I thought it was going to unnecessarily complicate the rear seat side panels. So, out came the scissors and cardboard to make new patterns which were then transferred to steel. And, just to confuse things, I jumped to the passenger side first.

The panels were trimmed and then mig welded. As these will be covered by upholstery panels, the level of metal finish was not critical.

But they came out pretty well anyway. I then gave the last of the pitted metal a quick pass with the HF sand blaster.

I must have climbed in and out of the backseat a 100 times fitting, trimming, tweaking, test installing etc.


It was at this point I decided that I should cut an access panel into the panel in case I ever need access behind the panel. I will probably remove the panel one more time and flange the edge of the access hole just to provide a more finished product.