I'm mocking up a 1931 Model A and at this time no SBC. I'd like to get the distance from the center of the Motor mount to the front of the WP shaft flange. I'd like to know how far back the mounts should be from the Radiator. I can always use a pulley/fan spacer. Movin/on
There’s more than one length of water pump on a SBC. Do you want a short water pump measurement, I can look at the Vette in the morning.
From the center of the bottom motor mount bolt hole to the front of the short water pump flange is about 11-1/4". That's without gaskets between the pump and block. The shaft of the pump sticks out about 1/2" past the flange on my pump. That's a short pump on a '67 283 measured on an engine stand in the garage. I don't know your motor mount design, so hopefully that's a useful measurement for you.
^^ This. You didn't say what style motor mounts. ***uming side mounts, you might be using ones with a doughnut style rubber, or ones with a factory style bonded rubber. Usually frame and/or tire rake puts the front of the engine down, and carb and driveline may want the rear of the engine down. You probally can get enough play to overcome this with a doughnut rubber, albeit it under strain, if you put your frame mount flat to the frame. With a factory style mount with a horizontal bolt connection, maybe not. Things work best without a lot of strain on the parts. If you must drive ahead, at least get the frame set up with the rake you will use and then set the frame mount 2-3 degrees down.
I didn't realize there were so many options. I'm a Ford FE guy installing a SBC into a friend's car. I've been welding for 50+ years and know about the details, but "measure twice and cut once" is my practice. Since I don't have the SBC Thats why I asked. I do have a Model A frame (SBC mounts) of my own here but wanted some satisfaction of the location. That was done 30years ago. How much longer is the long WP from the short? Movin/on
Other details on where motor mounts would go , Best to cut Firewall First , then mock up to set motor mounts & clearances between Radiator ,then fab the firewall as needed / want .. This is with the measurements from P&J's motor mounts off stock location on side of block , Vega box... With radiator in stock location With fenders , SBC in pic has a Zipp's water pump riser , ( with straight 6 chev water pump ) witch is same distance of short v8 Vett pump , ( block to water pump flang where pulley bolts to,, with spacer shown in pic would be with long water pump ( with out fan spacer ) Fan is 1-1/2 from radator , Zip riser moves fan to center of radator , ""With Out zip "" riser the center of fan will be 3-1/2 to 4 inch lower , With Radator in Stock location , With Stock ,Firewall ( 30-31 shown) will need to be cut / modified to clear distributor & back side for heads , more on P***enger side.. Not Sure on 28-29
On my Vette 296mm along the ch***is rail from the centre bolt of the motor mount to the face of the pulley, you’re relying on me getting it square!
From center motor mount bolt on block To flange where water pump pulley Is 11 -1/2 inches , Short Vett pump
You'll save nothing by trying to build now without an engine in there for mockup. And likely create problems you'll have to rework later if anything is even a little off. I'd simply concentrate on other things on the build until you have your engine, or can maybe borrow a block to use for mockup. There's always plenty to take up time on most builds.
I would probably mock up with trans installed as well. Measure twice…..etc etc. I like exhaust too as a retired plumber, waste dictates
I've never seen a reason to even consider using a long water pump on a hot rod, especially starting with a fresh build, and the justification of using it because it was already on the engine with all the matching bracketry, pulleys, etc escapes me. If for no other reason than those long water pumps and related OEM hardware are just plain ugly.
^^^^^^^^^^^^Whut he said^^^^^^^^ Trying to do it with a measurement will lead to problems later. You need to know how the exhausts will interact with the frame and the mount as well as the steering. You can pick up smallblock cores for as little as $100 and resell them when you are done.......or keep them. You need to know up and down as well as fore and aft...........
Maybe these will help? One is a V8 and the other is a V6 which is a V8 with 2 cylinders removed. Don't know which water pump it used.
Now that is suitable for framing, just needs the emblem and the bowtie in the frontal view photoshopped out first.
on your drawings, the V8 has the short pump, the V6 has the long pump. I can tell by the lower pulleys.
Do you know the difference between the two? I knew a couple weeks ago, but my old-timers has been active lately.
I don't have both to look at right now. The long one is about an inch longer where the back of the pump is, but the shaft length might not be that much different. I tend to keep them totally separate in my mind, so I haven't really bothered comparing them. Short pump setups get short pump parts, long pump setups get long pump parts, never the twain shall meet.
Short vs Long pump dimensions here: https://www.alangrovecomponents.com/images/Instructions/Water_Pump_Diagrams.pdf
The long pump is 1-3/8" longer than the short pump on a SBC. I wouldn't place the engine mounts without an engine. Oil pan clearance, crank pulley clearance, exhaust location, and distributor clearance are all important items to know.
Yep, simply the type of exhaust manifold/header/steering column/ location can create a real cluster f#@k if not planned as a whole.
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