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Technical Flathead ID?

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by DreamerJ, Feb 4, 2024.

  1. DreamerJ
    Joined: Oct 3, 2021
    Posts: 130

    DreamerJ
    Member

    I was given a flathead (59) that has no markings on it but the number 99 and an odd stamping. All of the parts that came out of it were stamped Ford Canada. Does anyone know what I have?

    Cylinders are 3 3/16

    there are no serial numbers or any marks any where. Any ideas?
     

    Attached Files:

  2. BJR
    Joined: Mar 11, 2005
    Posts: 10,997

    BJR
    Member

    How about a picture of the entire engine from different angles so we can see what it looks like?
     
  3. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 15,019

    Budget36
    Member

    I’ve no knowledge, but recall 99T as a truck designation. Maybe or may not be related?
     
  4. 99 is good. Can,t remember all the facts though. I have one here. Do a search for Mercury 99 or something like that.
     
    clem likes this.
  5. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 15,019

    Budget36
    Member

    Recalling what I can, weren’t the truck block the ones with valve reliefs on them?
     
  6. My 99 is relieved.
     
  7. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 15,019

    Budget36
    Member

    See, I have reading and comprehension skills;)
     
    The37Kid and Johnny Gee like this.
  8. quickchangeV8
    Joined: Dec 7, 2010
    Posts: 585

    quickchangeV8
    Member

    The 99 you have is a 1939 to 1941 Mercury block. Very sought after by the flathead guys.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2024
    hightower611 likes this.
  9. clem
    Joined: Dec 20, 2006
    Posts: 4,593

    clem
    Member

    I was always told anything with 9 in was good.
    59 is good
    99 is good
    But I have only had experience with the 8BA
     
  10. hotcoupe
    Joined: Oct 3, 2007
    Posts: 633

    hotcoupe
    Member

    Does it have "Welch" plugs in the pan rail? Should be four of them.
    Tom
     
  11. DreamerJ
    Joined: Oct 3, 2021
    Posts: 130

    DreamerJ
    Member

    Photos loaded. Thanks for any ID help.
     

    Attached Files:

    Ziggster likes this.
  12. DreamerJ
    Joined: Oct 3, 2021
    Posts: 130

    DreamerJ
    Member

    Yes it has the plugs in the rail
     
  13. hotcoupe
    Joined: Oct 3, 2007
    Posts: 633

    hotcoupe
    Member

    Congrats, that is a very desirable block! Hope it passes the crack test.
    Tom
     
  14. Ziggster
    Joined: Aug 27, 2018
    Posts: 2,271

    Ziggster
    Member

    Looks exactly like my 59A block. Even the coolant passages between the middle two cylinders is the same, and I recall there were differences in the shapes of those passages over time.

    93AF2AB6-F7D1-4896-96AA-08D638219FE2.jpeg
    FBAB9E14-0BB7-475F-94C9-2F2392AF1CB3.jpeg
    CB9A87EC-CB4F-4AEB-AD8D-05B589850336.jpeg
    7413B56D-7A89-4152-8AC3-2A9DA5DC8A85.jpeg
     
    DreamerJ likes this.
  15. Glenn Thoreson
    Joined: Aug 13, 2010
    Posts: 1,017

    Glenn Thoreson
    Member
    from SW Wyoming

    Don't rely too much on the numbers on these things. Most numbers meant nothing to anyone but the original manufacturing crews. Can be very confusing.
     
  16. DreamerJ
    Joined: Oct 3, 2021
    Posts: 130

    DreamerJ
    Member

    Thanks everyone! I cannot find any cracks visually and I’ll take it to the machine shop tomorrow for mag.
     
  17. wheeldog57
    Joined: Dec 6, 2013
    Posts: 3,759

    wheeldog57
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    The trapezoid shaped lower water jacket should denote 239ci Mercury or truck like mine. Flat intake boss is before 1941 I believe, I have limited experience. Great find!
     
  18. DreamerJ
    Joined: Oct 3, 2021
    Posts: 130

    DreamerJ
    Member

    IMG_7420.jpeg I found something interesting while wire wheeling the bell housing. Looks like military letters that I uncovered. The 2 came off but it was “216074”. If anyone knows what the numbers mean, I’d love to learn. I assume this was some kind of inventory number when the engine came out of the vehicle it was in?
     
  19. Glen E MacDonald
    Joined: May 11, 2015
    Posts: 53

    Glen E MacDonald
    Member

    Definitely a 239 c.i. , 1939 Mercury "keystone" block similar to mine. Mine was an ex-military truck engine (with the combustion chamber relieving). Yours doesn't appear to have the relieving so I believe it may have been for the passenger car. Regardless, provided it's not a leaker, you have a great starting point.
     

    Attached Files:

  20. The 99A engine that you have is what 39 - 41 Mercury cars came with - and a few trucks. The center water hole is round - which is one tell-tale sign. As it has the welch plugs in the pan rails, it is prior to 1942. The valve angles will be different than the 59x and 49-53 engines. The truck and later WWII versions were usually factory relieved - so yours probably came out of a car.

    I would first have the block magnafluxed, if it passes that, then I would pressure test it and also sonic test the bores so you know what you have to work with. I have a 1942 version of this engine - heavily modified - in my 32 Cab. Mine was a NOS WWII engine - with what is commonly referred to as a "raised intake surface" (actually it is lowered around it).

    There are lots of often repeated old "wife's tales" related to this being a thicker block with more nickel content . . . and on and on. I've done a lot of testing on various 39 - 53 blocks and I see nothing that truly makes this block any better than the 59X series that came out after the war. As a matter of fact, the valve angle changes in the 59x series makes the later blocks a little less prone to cracking between the valve bowls and the bores.

    What type of flathead are you pondering building - there is a whole universe of potential options --> it all comes down to budget, expectations and how many cool go-fast goodies you want to put on it.

    Checkout the pot-metal rear crankshaft seal plates - yours appear to be for the labyrinth type of oil control (no seal) - you'll want to switch them over to the better rope style of seal plates and run later crankshafts with a seal surface on them.

    If you need any additional information, feel free to DM me - be happy to help.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2024
  21. You appear to have a Canadian version (C59A) - which is usually different than a USA 59x block. Your deck surfaces appear to be more like a USA 99A block - with the round center water outlet and the trapezoid lower water outlet. Also, as yours was factory relieved, it is most likely out of a truck.

    Most USA 59x blocks have a round center and lower water outlets in the middle of the deck.

    I have not inspected a Canadian 59x block - so I am not sure about the valve angles, though my guess is that they would be the same as the USA 59X versions.
     
  22. Ziggster
    Joined: Aug 27, 2018
    Posts: 2,271

    Ziggster
    Member

    I was doing some digging as I was curious, and my block has the 4 welch coolant plugs in the pan rails. According to stuff I’ve read on the web, IIRC these plugs were eliminated around 1942. Is this correct, and if so, why would my block have them if it is a C59A?

    387A1FB0-DF90-460F-B810-C3A69B5E2AF0.png
     
  23. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 22,265

    alchemy
    Member

    Maybe the Canadians kept the core plugs after the war?
     
  24. Beanscoot
    Joined: May 14, 2008
    Posts: 3,529

    Beanscoot
    Member

    Could be. There were lots of little differences with engines and transmissions up here, the flathead was used in 1954, non-synchro transmissions up to and including the 1964 model year etc.
     
  25. Ziggster
    Joined: Aug 27, 2018
    Posts: 2,271

    Ziggster
    Member

    To further complicate things, the rebuild tag that was affixed to the block says it is a C69T.A. It is a truck engine for sure as it was hooked up to the truck trans, and has the large oval clean out on the pan. It was used as an industrial engine, and I even have the heavy duty rad that came with it.

    1870C3A6-8853-435D-92DF-CA2F0ED74527.jpeg
     
  26. glennpm
    Joined: Mar 29, 2015
    Posts: 228

    glennpm

    Block features table.jpg

    Pictures backing up this table start on page #5 of the Techno link in my sig.

    Glenn
     
  27. DreamerJ
    Joined: Oct 3, 2021
    Posts: 130

    DreamerJ
    Member

    Good news fellow HAMB lovers, the block checked out to be crack free at the machine shop. Not even a stud to water jacket!

    Off to buy expensive speed parts and decide on the bore size!

    Having a hard time with cam selection, any cams in mind? Max1? 3/4 race cam? Need good idle and some wow too.

    own a 3x2 intake but may go down to 2x2.
     
    seb fontana, Ziggster and Budget36 like this.
  28. tubman
    Joined: May 16, 2007
    Posts: 7,940

    tubman
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Depends on what it is going into. A '40 sedan needs a different cam than a "T"-Bucket.
     
    Budget36 likes this.
  29. Beanscoot
    Joined: May 14, 2008
    Posts: 3,529

    Beanscoot
    Member

    Amazing to have no cracks at all. Good fortune for you!
     
    Ziggster and Budget36 like this.
  30. DreamerJ
    Joined: Oct 3, 2021
    Posts: 130

    DreamerJ
    Member

    good point, 30 roadster.
     

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