Hot Rods 140 Horsepower. 3 gears. 3.08:1. 28" tires. 3200lbs

Hey all,

as the****le says, a 3200 lb vehicle with 140 hp and a 3 speed with 3.08:1 rear and 28 in tires... is that enough power to get around in modern traffic? I am trying to remember my 50 sedan... at 3400 lbs with 90 horsepower 3 gears and 3.55:1 and 27" tires it was a bit painful but I was in more of a hurry back in those days. This build I am asking about is a county road, sunday afternoon, GO AROUND ME IF YOU DONT LIKE IT build. I just dont want to put in all that effort to find I hate it.

I am desperately clinging to the column shifter, and I am a bit scared of the B-W overdrive 3 speeds cause they are made from glass and getting rare. If I didnt want the column shift, I would throw a t5 at it and be done. I could make a 6-position column shifter, but there are easier ways to torture my self.



I am hoping some guys out there can say "Yes, I have a 235 chevy (newer) or an ancient flat head or whatever, and with a 3 speed and 2.73 or 3.08 or whatever, its FINE for getting around"

But if enough people who have HAD those figures say its just not practical, then I suppose I need to find a 292 or throw in a 5 speed.

Thanks

 

2800 lbs, 250 hp, 4 speed, 3.08, 28" tires, I have to slip the clutch a bit to get going. But it's fun. More fun than a column shift...

they put mid-high 3 gears in the rear on cars back then for a reason, you know. It was to get moving. And to keep moving when the road got a little steeper.

 

HA! modern traffic? you want modern traffic bro, c'mon down to old H town-modern traffic here now seems to be an electric scooter. If it can get to 3 mph in a few blocks, its fine-at least for here.

 

Had a 235 with 3:55s did great on backroads.
Not so great on the interstsste.
it could do 60-65 mph comfortably 235/75/15 tire
I’d prefer a lower gear than the 3:08
It’s just back roads.

 

In town the ability to stop and manouver is more important than power. On the big roads there lanes for slow traffic.

As Anthony said in a roundabout way, choose your routes if it is a worry.

 

The Saginaw OD trans should hold up fine if running a gm 6
I have one a guy abused behind a stout SBC in a 55.
Replacing the cluster gear, but it was cheap and came with a good cluster and reverse set up.
Its probably going behind my 235
Eventually

the full synchro version would be fine.

 

Oh, I put 2:75 gears behind a stock 302 ford.
3 on the tree.
Great cruising. 80/90+
Was a dog starting off. Hills*****ed.

 

I had a ot El Camino.229 worn out linked to th400 and 2.43 rear.215/75-15 tires.
Worked just fine.it was not a dragster.

 

Why not find yourself a 292 and hot rod it, you can get some good horsepower out of them and then you can retain all of the other stuff

 

I have 3.08s behind a 327/ TH400 and it's a good road car, but not very fun to drive as a hot rod. Someday I'd like to have an overdrive and 3.42s. I think that would be the best of both worlds.

 

I've got a 60,000 mile Chevy 250 , TH350, 2:73 gears and 29" tires in my 36. Not lighting the world on fire by any means but it does the job, in a slow motion kind of way. Mitch

 

I don’t know why you’re scared of the R-10 overdrive behind a small engine. They built millions of those that worked fine unless really abused. Put that behind a 3 speed (I think there was a Saginaw with a synchro first with it?) Wire it like the factory manual shows , and learn to drive one. Put 3.9’s or 4:11’s in the back like the oem’s did. Then just go enjoy the ride with the column shift.

 

I wouldn't be too concerned about the engine's HP number's as I would be with the torque output. If the engine you're using doesn't have enough torque to pull a sick****** out of bed, you're going to need to gear it correctly, which means lower gear's. Don't be afraid of RPM, especially if it's a back road cruiser, these old engine's were designed to run in the 2500 to 3000 rpm range, reliably. If you don't like rpm, build an engine with more torque and use a higher gear. JMO

 

"This build I am asking about is a county road, sunday afternoon, GO AROUND ME IF YOU DONT LIKE IT build."

Heck yes it's enough! For what you intend it will do a good job...a well tuned 235 is a nice torquey six and can pull a 3.08 gear in a 3200 lb car no sweat in the conditions you describe. I converted two different vehicles...a pickup and a sedan...years ago when I ran a repair shop. One had a 3.00 gear and the other had a 3.25 (in 9" Ford rears) and both powered by 235's that pulled them just fine.

 

You mention "country roads" but you also mention "getting around with modern traffic".

The simple answer is that you can't get from "here to there" without going the long way around on country roads......and on most two lane hwys today cars are still moving pretty fast. Accept the fact that you need a car capable of comfortably going "at least" 75 mph and you can get on the expressway. Even going across town these days, people get on the xway. You can say that you won't...........but its better to give yourself that option. Once you sink your money in the wrong choice, you won't want to put more money in to change again, and you won't enjoy the car when those semi trucks keep tailgating you. Just get on any nearby xway and drive your car in its current state. Get in the slow lane and drive 60 or whatever your car is comfortable with. You don't realize how many semis are on the road today until you have this experience......especially on a rainy day when their side spray blinds you as they pass again and again and yet again. Its unpleasant to say the least. Just take a 50 mile drive in the slow lane one time.

So if you want to keep up with modern traffic and enjoy your drive, at the very minimum you need a 5 speed OD of some type. I'd just cut to the chase and install something that isn't straining at 75 mph. Engine speed/noise can ruin a trip. I know you want to hear from the people who will tell you the six will be a fine engine for the car, but the cost of getting decent power from a six and the specialty parts will soon be as much as getting a V8 and installing it.

There are a lot of people who like driving six cylinder cars, but while liking an engine is great......it doesn't increase its power or driveability. How often do you see someone pull a V8 out and replace it with a 6?

 

Me.
Putting a 292 together to replace a 350.
Then a non spark plugged 6 to replace a caddy 500.
Replacing a 283 in a c30 with another non sparked plugged 6.
Im goofy like that

I’ve put a million miles in traffic with a straight 6.
Never an issue.
That’s what passing lanes are for

 

Gonna be lugging that 235 with those gears

 

>>a 3200 lb vehicle with 140 hp and a 3 speed with 3.08:1 rear and 28 in tires... is that enough power to get around>>?

Hmmm?. That''s pretty hefty. Over 20 lbs/hp. As I recall, 15 lbs/hp was typically recommended for everybody who wanted to be somebody getting around traffic in a lowly E/G class vehicle. Accordingly, 200+hp seems more appropriate if you really wanna be somebody.

 

Crap. I’m somebody if I’m just pushing the car

 

WOW Thanks all!

I should have been more specific. Traffic here isnt new york city or LA, its just goinmg through towns when there are other cars. I dont want to be in the way, but I DONT need or want to be fast either. Just want to enjoy the truck.

Kerrynzl that "poverty pack Biscayne" sounds close in spec to what I'm proposing. Obviously it wasnt fast, but was it good enough to get around in? never drove one



a t5 solves all of this, I just realy wanted to keep it on the column. Less shifting is nice. I dont need to win any races, I just dont want to be in the way either.

 

Eh one thing to remember about too steep a gear on a lower powered manual transmission vehicle is regardless of number of gears in gearbox you'll end up shifting more. My ot S10 is a perfect example of this. With 3.73s I was shifting at least 20 times in my 30 minute commute to work due to hills, curves etc. And that was after reaching fourth gear. After going to 4.10 gears I only had to shift 2-3 times after reaching fourth gear on top of gaining around 6 mpg

 

Just drive it.

this ain’t rocket surgery

and not everyone is building a drag car

 

By the way,an overdrive trans isn't going to make the car any faster if it's HP limited. You might get up to your max HP limited speed a little quicker but it won't likely provide any higher top speed than the 3.08 rear gear and high gear in your three speed will. If you'll truly be satisfied with 60-65 mph cruising then it'll be just fine.

 

interesting thing about overdrives and not real powerful engines....they actually work best with 4.56 gears.....

I had a 51 hudson, 308, 3 on the tree, original overdrive and 4.56 gears. It worked pretty well, I could drive 65 on the highway, I could drive in town with minimal shifting using 2nd gear and OD kickdown most of the time. Then I got "smart" and swapped in some 4.11 gears, and it kind of ruined it.

 

Yep. OD could use more gear.
So your basically at the sane cruising rpm with the 308 amd no OD.
But it’s more fun to drive with the lower rear gears.
I plan to use an OD with my merc. It has the non OD 3:92 gears. the 283 should be fine with those.

my stock 235 with 3 speed had no issues cruising around. Even with the 3:55s it could have handled an OD.

 

So here’s real world. Good running 235 in a ‘59 Chevy PU. Ran so well, just couldn’t do a V8 swap. Had the optional posi rear, I forget the gear ratio, near 4:1.
Was taching around 3K on the freeway (used as a driver).
I figured MPH maybe close to 60 or so with the taller rear tires I had(forget the size).
Found and went through a 3:54? Or 5? Dana 44 from a GMC.
I still ran it at 3k on the freeway. Wished I had another gear.
but I had the 4 speed truck trans, wasn’t confident in taking off in 2nd with any higher gear ratio.
I hauled a Perterbuilt dropping 3rd member, two axles and two tires and wheels to my Dad in Nevada. Modesto, up over Donner Pass , don’t recall having to go to 3rd gear at all. Probably did, just don’t recall.
Now I don’t know how your 1st gear compares to the trucks 2nd gear when taking off, clutch slip maybe? I don’t know.

 

I am always a fan of more gears in the transmission when using a lower output/smaller engine.

These. of course, need to be balanced with the rear end ratio, and how it relates to the tire diameter.

When making the selection decision, I start at the bottom, not the top. If you have too tall a gear at the top, you can downshift. If you have one at the bottom, You get to deal with it, or do it over.

If you have too low a gear at the bottom, you upshift.

For a good reference point (given the same rear tires and weight), multiply the first gear ratio by the rear end ratio.

That is your off-the-line ratio.

For example, a 3.76:1 first gear T5 from an S10, backed by a 3.73:1 rear gear would yield an off-the-lime ratio of 14.02:1

That is typically what I would run in a 1947-1954 Chevy passenger car, with a stock-ish V8.

For an inline-6, I would use a 4.11:1 rear, for a off-the-line ratio of 15.45:1.

Those are just a few. First gear and the rear end gear have to work well in concert. It's all about balance.

I run a manual that has a first gear that is already quite tall (like second gear) in comparison to many common transmissions. For that reason, I have an even lower rear end gear to balance it out. My car is light and has shorter tires. It has a 13.67:1 off-the-line ratio. It does quite well with it's inline-6.

For most street driving styles it is more important than anything else to make sure the car is capable of getting off-the-line, and up to the speed limit in a timely fashion. Most prevailing trip speeds are far lower than you think that they might be, even in out in the sticks.

I live where the speed limit (save for two stretches of road) is 25mph on the streets. All data shows that the average speed of traffic is 7mph, including those two stretches of road.

Always remember: It is better to turn an engine a little faster under lighter load, than it is to turn one more slowly under a heavier load.

That saves clutches and bottom ends.

 

So you’re saying you’d drive it? Hehe.

 

I'll just never understand why people think that running an engine at 3000 rpm is like standing at the porthole of Hell, waiting for Satan to drag you in. That's what these thing's were designed for! Embrace it... Drive it... and enjoy the***** out of it! A 1600 rpm cruise speed is reserved for O/T daily's that the Gov't regulate's... Not our stuff! If it worked back then, it'll work now. You'd be surprised at how economical these car's were when tuned right.

 

This works great with small engines.

Big engines...tend to get better mileage and are still drivable when run slower, with a bit more load.