Projects My GN Cycle Car tribute build

Also watched these vids on engine turning/jeweling. Will for sure do this for the real aluminum dash.

 

Made some of the holes too big. D’oh! Can’t find my oil press gage, and the light switch I took apart a long time ago, and never put it back together. Double and triple d’oh!
Also, changed the height/radius along the top to bring it up higher.

 

Round 2. Now thinking about moving the water and temp gages to where the light switch is, and moving the light switch to where the oil gage is as I think it will be awkward to activate the light switches with my left hand reaching behind the wheel. Will mount gages as is, and we’ll see.

 

Finally, got this mocked up. Found the oil press gage, then couldn’t find the light switch (left it under some papers in my office - still have to ***emble it).
I can actually see the water and oil gages when seated back. iPhone camera can’t take a pic of what my eyes see. This will be good enough for now for wire length mock-up and I’ll attach it to the frame somehow.

 

Forgot to mention, that I made the hole too large again for the tach (drilled it smaller, but then ground it out ti fit the circle I drew). D’oh! So, moved it to where I was going to put the speedo. Speedo is supposed to be 4” which will work.
Oh yeah, my air compressor stopped working. Been having issues with it the last year or so. Was working yesterday. New pressure switch seems to working and have 240V going into the motor box.

 

That battery gauge came from an early Dodge Brothers.

 

Picked up the thermostats, thermostat gaskets, and the Gates 90 degree elbows from Napa yesterday. Had some questions about the thermostat installation, so created this thread.

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/ford-c59-flathead-thermostat-installation.1311808/

With my kiddo back home for spring break, I’ve been a little more preoccupied. Not sure if she’ll be able to give me a hand as planned as she has ***ignments/quizzes to complete.
I was doing more digging on bead rolling, and came across this nifty Graham tool. Way to spendy for me, so I’ll try to cob something up over the next couple of days. Can’t be too hard? Lol!
So grateful to have a lathe. Wonder how I managed without one.


Actually, they have a slightly different tool for larger tube which looks like this.




Also, was looking into swagging tools, and found these.



So, will also try to cob something up similar. Will be nice to swage and bead roll the copper tubes myself.

 

Decided to check to see if the thermostats opened at 180F, and both did. Will test them half a dozen more times.

 

Made a swagging die from a shaft collar. Tried it in the lathe, and no bueno. Added heat from my MAPP torch, and still no better. Removed the shoulder on the end of the die and hammered it in. Worked, but a bear to get the die back out. Then tried again using my hyd press which worked not too bad, but die is now stuck. Didn’t think it would be this hard.

 

I'm just throwing this out there. I know that's pretty hard copper, I wonder if it can be annealed before you swagg it.

Phil

 

Total guess here, but I think those flat spots in the tool are there for a reason. Each hit of the corner (spinning and advancing) is like forming with a hammer and dolly.

Flow form not brute force. Basically you are doing metal spinning...just in tube form right?

I wonder if lubricant would help or hurt.

Speeds and feeds?

 

I THINK I would relieve most of the diameter. Just full diameter at the end and lube it.

 

For sure having a full dia was not the correct approach. The rotary drill like tool is flat but no steps from what I can see. It has a smoother/longer transition than what I had. I was limited by the length of the collar. I did add a couple of grooves, but it still got stuck. It’s type M copper, so medium hardness/strength. Still, I just thought it would really easy to form. Just enlarging the diameter by 0.100”.
Anyways, decided to try a different approach using 4 segments that when drawn together will expand. I repurposed the die, machined some angles on each end. Then machined two mating cones that will push against the 4 segments (hopefully). No calcs, just eyeballing everything. Still have to cut the die, and MacGyver some way of drawing the cones towards one another.

 

Gave it a try this morning. I think it was staring to work, but then one of my welds holding onto the bottom cone snapped. Will make repairs and try again later.

 

Got it to kinda work, but the pipe started to crack. This was only after expanding just under half the amount (about 0.040”). I need the OD to be 1.75”. Fooled around a bit more. Added heat from my MAPP torch, and really no difference. At one point after tightening the nut more, I could feel it spin. Took everything apart, and the 1/2” thread was destroyed. Damn! This is starting to pi$$ me off. Strange how driving down the die using my hyd press didn’t damage the pipe, but expanding it from the inside did, and at less than half the amount needed. Obviously, some type of material theory at work.

 

Running out of ideas. Will repair the tool tomorrow. I obviously need higher strength threaded rod. Will need to buy some high strength bolts and nuts. I only see two approaches. Use tool as is, and heat pipe using my oxy torch to higher temp. Second, rework tool so that I can use it in the hyd press maybe expanding it in multiple p***es.
I’m noticing that of course, the pipe wall is thinner after expanding it, and when I add the bead to this thinner wall, it will get even thinner. So, maybe all this is for naught. If this turns out to be the case, the only solution I can see is buying a bunch of couplings, cutting them up to use to increase the OD, and run the hose bead on them, and then braze/solder those “rings” to the pipe.

 

Did some more digging and should had paid more attention to @Phil P post about annealing. Could have saved me from all this trouble.

 

I think you want to peen it (360 degrees on a V block), or heat it all around to relieve the hoop stress, and do this repe***ively and progressively, all around. Peening has to be hard enough to yield the copper. You are asking the metal to stretch by more than 6%.* You can probably get 1% strain before it splits.

* 1.75/1.65"

 

Wow, I can see how it can easily get to that, but geez...I bought what I hope is the right input shaft for $90 which should fit perfectly into my 10 spline. A good machinist will save your bacon also...it works both ways. OTOH, a good machinist should have been able to do that in about 30 minutes.

Nice work if you can get it...and if you get it, tell me how...

Ok, you're on another problem, the CDN is gone and I probably shouldn't have reminded you...

 

It seems I’m asking more than what it can yield cold working it, but I was able to expand it without causing any cracks when I pushed the die (non-segmented) down with my hyd press without heating or annealing the pipe. I did a have a good engineering type book about copper pipe from my AC days, but I think I recently tossed it. Always the case. Hang onto something for decades only to deep six it shortly before you need it. Lol!
Annealing it for sure has to help, but the only question is, can the forming process be done in one step, or will it take multiple steps. Also, which process will ultimately (hopefully) be successful? Pushing the segmented die down like a drawing process, or expanding the pipe using the segmented die. Pushing the die through a short piece of copper was successful, but I have longer pieces of pipe. I could see them kinking or collapsing if unsupported.
I’ll be off to town once again to get more stuff later this morning to try both approaches again. I’m pi$$ed it is taking this long, but also a little more determined to see if it can be done.

 

Yes, I almost fell over when told me the cost. Shop rate IIRC was $150/hr. They probably had to order the steel, then mark that up 100%, then cut, then machine ID, then machine OD. Then cut again. Then press it on. Not making excuses, but you know they’re going to charge at least one hr labour. If my lathe was in better shape, I would have made it myself, but the guy I purchased it from ******ed it up. I don’t have the time now to tear into it. I should show you some of grinding he did on the tool steel cutters. Almost all are totally useless and believe it or not, but I’ve never had a grinder.

 

Try this: put a round steel bar into your lathe that slides into the copper tube easily. Then you need a caged roller or ball bearing in a sturdy holder. Put the tube on the steelbar and start the lathe (slow speed but you might need to try for best work) Then near the roller bearing to the tube and press it against it, it should start to turn now and the roller bearing acts as a steamroller and stretches the metal - thus creating a bigger tube. If the tube slides on the rotating bar you could knurl the bar or coat it with some valve lapping stuff.

 

Haha! I’ve actually thought about this, but then forgot.

 

Back from town, but I gotta deal with this mess. I can’t take it anymore!

 

"It seems I’m asking more than what it can yield cold working it... I did a have a good engineering type book about copper pipe from my AC days, but I think I recently tossed it. Always the case. Hang onto something for decades only to deep six it shortly before you need it. Lol!"
Annealing it for sure has to help... post 680

I will never get rid of my Machinery's Handbook.
If you look at a shell casing, these are only 0.012" or so thick, and swaging dies move the br*** (mostly copper) only a couple thousandths. Are you going to pressurize the tube? Take that into account. Custom Tubing shops have these adjustable swaging dies.

Can you solder a flattened copper wire around the tube to catch the hose clamp, can machine it pretty smooth, and preserve the integrity of the tubing? Maybe bevel and overlap the joint.

 

Haha! I still have my Machinery Handbook handed down from my boss when he retired. I think the solution will be to anneal it first. I was watching a Ron Covell YT vid last night where he was annealing some aluminum sheet he was preparing for shaping for a Porsche Spyder bomber type seat. He had a nice little trick to ensure he teaching the correct temp of 800F.
I’m glad you mentioned tubing shops, because I then immediately thought of muffler shops as they need to expand exhaust pipes all the time. The Googler found me this…



Damn! I’m an idiot! This is basically what I’ve been futzing around with for a few days but much stronger looking. I’ll order this today, but will continue with swapping out the 1/2” threaded rod with a M12 bolt Gr 10.9 and see what happens. Still have to finish cleaning up, but we’re under a severe rainfall warning with it starting later this morning, and I can’t leave my garage queen out in that, so will lose my workshop space when that happens.

 

Well, not so fast. Read the Amazon reviews, and then those for what looks like the same tool sold here at ****py Tire, and most say the tool broke almost immediately. Lol! One reviewer said you needed to slot the pipe first before using the tool. That’s a no go.
Ok. Back to square one…

 

Here they heat the pipe up before using a spinning tool for 1” pipe. Looks too easy. Lol!



Different technique, but again pipe had to be heated (he calls it tempering).

 

Maybe something like that ?

 

What is that? Do you have a link? Haven’t had a chance yet to get back at it.