Hot Rods What is an honest shop rate?

talking about people who do not want to work with their hands, I talked to a plumber who is hear of the state
group that advises on updates to the code, pretty tuned in guy. He mentioned that the average age of a plumber
in CT is over 60, wonder what they will get in 10 years? The shortage will be crazy.

 

That's easy to fix. Provide a solid, stable career (something lacking in many newer fields) that pays well enough that you can raise a family and save for retirement when you get home tired and dirty from work. That's what's caused the lack of new blood, not a dislike for hands-on.
Just looked up CT plumber jobs.
https://www.indeed.com/q-Plumber-l-Connecticut-jobs.html?vjk=74ce326de2d0a3b9
Seems most are around 40-45 hour and lots of "licensed".
That may sound like a great wage to us old guys, but it's not that great and it won't keep up with costs unless this 'shortage' forces a major reckoning in both labor rates and wages.

 

Someone mentioned deadlines. I make it very clear, and in these exact words, "Deadlines are for ****in TV shows." Delivering quality requires realistic discipline and expectations...from all involved.

 

Product liability insurance is an interesting thing to buy.

In my little one man welding shop, when I closed the doors in 2018, shop insurance was the biggest expense I had. I worked from home (a business zoned property) with a dedicated building in which I worked. That shop liability insurance did not cover the building nor the equipment inside of it, no health insurance, nothing covering customer injuries while on my property, not anything other then just the liability for doing the work on peoples cars & trucks. The insurance was only for the customer's stuff, and the liability that could be ***ociated with any of my work that might fail or cause injury to them if something should happen to the vehicle I worked on (I had the welding certificates required to cover the work I was doing).

I had received notice that the insurance company was with was no longer going to cover me (3rd such notice in 3 years from 3 different companies). Their decision had nothing to do with any claims (I have never had any), but was completely due to the premium I was paying. When I inquired about the letter, according to them (off the record of course), the State has a control of how much they can bill me for the liability insurance, and it is tied to a percentage the shop's gross income limit (max then was 10%). The shop income was insufficient to "cover" their cost of liability. Upon farther inquiring, they stated I would need to double my income to reach the "minimum company required limits", and then they would have to reduce the amount of protection by 1/2 of what it was before.

Doubling my shop rate would have made me one of the highest priced per hour welding shops in the area. As stated elsewhere, there are only so many billable hours in a week, I sure couldn't work enough hours a week to double the billable hours I was working in the shop. There are reasons most one or two men shops don't have insurance, and it may have nothing to do with their desire.

Just one of several reasons I retired.

 

Sometimes I kick myself for not opening a shop that specializes in frame and structure work for old cars.
No paint, just metal
The **** most shops don’t mess with

 

Interesting topic. Everyone keeps telling me no one wants to be a mechanic. In the ten years I’ve been teaching apprenticeship automotive, this past year has been record amounts of students, full cl***es, big waiting lists to get in. Apparently no one told them they don’t want to be in the trade.

 

My rat for paintless dent is dollar for dollar I worked on a hail job last weak that was just shy of 8 grand the roof panel was almost 3 grand alone. on the body side its 65 a hour just shy of 200 a hour for mechanical. parts and materials are threw the roof if you can get the parts we have a truck waiting for a part since march of 22. The restos and rod shops are north of 100 a hour hear in town.

 

I recently got a quote from a one man shop in So Cal to do a chopped top on my 40 convert.labor for the fabric top was a fixed price. Everything else was time and materials at $170 an hour.And he wouldn’t even give me a ballpark price.no thanks

 

Don't blame the man one bit , it would be T&M with bi weekly pay out, so if something goes south neither the customer or the shop doesn't lose much , used to do the same with large home & business remodeling jobs .

 

I recently considered getting back into turning a wrench for a living. Around here you are doing very well if you can get 25 per hour... lots of places are at 20...saddest part is thats also about what I could make working at KFC as a new hire. Worlds falling apart

 

This has turned out to be a very interesting topic. From what it sounds like $100.00 an hour is a good average. Seems fair, if the work is pro-level and the time is well spent. This brings me to another question. Do you charge for the time spent researching and figuring out how to make things work? What I
Am talking about is, for example, the hour that you will spend at the parts store to get the right radiator hose for a unique engine placement in an odd car, or figuring out which motor mount will allow you just enough room to sneak the steering shaft by the header in a tight engine compartment.

 

From the customer perspective it really depends on what you want done. Ive had quotes from flat fee up to $250+ an hour. Skill & knowledge cost, but like anything else, you get what you pay for.

 

IMO being self employed all my life and DIY guy in many areas, today's Hot Rod builder better have a VERY GOOD income if he farms a lot out or you will have a six figure car in a heartbeat. $100 /per is a deal now, most services you hire here in Wisconsin are at $150 as a general guideline, car parts 100 % minimum markup on parts. I still do my own car fix/maintenance as I have the tools/shop/skills because a $125/$150 oil and filter change bites my *** if I go to the dealer, the local GM dealer is at $168/ per now. My free advice to anyone these days wanting to build a hobby car is shop around and buy one as you can buy a nice car pretty reasonable, Again IMO. Garage fun and building is great therapy until you get old, now 76, still in my garage but now it's just work the fun mostly has gone away but until I can't anymore I will be out there having "fun"

 

I think like @wicarnut says, you mark up parts, not sure it that pays for your time or not, but helps.
Or, another possibility is to have a reduced rate for research and parts runs.
But I honestly don’t know, just thumbing out loud.

Another thing you’d have to think of, if you have two cars in the shop, you could be making the good dollars working on the other one.

 

I'm sorta generous with odd hours of those things. If I know what I want, including part numbers where possible, I give the client what I call a "homework ***ignment" to track it down, purchase, drop ship.

My model is extremely simple. My only product is labor. I'm not collecting the vig for the state, my accounts are COD and taxable.

 

This sounds dumb , but there are a whole slew of people out there who base the quality of your work on how much you charge . I've said in other threads that finding like minded people at car functions was difficult , in part because that perceived value system makes me sick . When I was young , adults were proud of how frugal they were , not of how much money they could piss away .

 

Many many years ago , I overheard some adults talking " If you make it in cash & spend it in cash , you never had it " . The tax people don't need to know everything

 

Art Morrison, here in the P.N.W., certainly got that market figured out.

 

I’d be fixing vintage wrecks and doing structure work.
Art and Detroit Speed has the aftermarket handled

 

It doesn't really matter what a "shop" charges for labor, it's what are YOU are willing to pay for the service you need. People shop around all the time for a "cheaper" alternative to the best guys rate. The forums are full of people complaining about how much shop A charges, so they went to shop B or C, Then they complain how long the job took or how the quality wasn't what they expected. The shop that can charge a high sum probably has all the work they want or need, and will deliver the quality if you can get on their schedule. I have seen several NEW shops open and think they can charge what an established restoration/custom shop charges. Only to find the customer that comes to them expects the same level of quality the established shop can produce, so they better deliver or they end up with a bad reputation for being low quality and expensive.
So it's not the shops rate that is the question, it's the customers willingness to pay or possibly give a little in the expectations category. JMO
New England area $150+ an hour for restoration/custom shop no problem. My last project was a 1966 Porsche 911, find a shop that will touch that for under $175 that you can trust knows what they are doing is impossible in this area.

 

That’s living dangerously! What if your client is writing off your work as a business expense on his shop truck and puts your costs as a deductible expense? Happens more than you think.

 

Aside from parts mark up. I always round up on labor hours and only bill by the 1/2 to full hour, some jobs you might add the extra time to the repair labor. Or could charge a admin fee i guess.

 

Art Morrison,,,,,is that the one that sold ch***is parts years ago .
The ladder bars on my Challenger are Art Morrison !
I bought them back in 85 or 86,,,,been a long time,,,but they were very good quality .

Tommy

 

Don't know about the US, but here you need the receipt to make just about anything a business expense, and if you did get a proper usable receipt the numbers has already been entered into the recipients electronic book keeping automatically (unless you're dealing with someone who handles so little cash in their business they're exempt from the cash registry rules).

 

Workers in a shop will have different opinions on things. Best to work to the shop owners level of finish, shut up and collect your check at the end of the week.

 

I go with what SQUIRREL said. If you saw the '51 ford on Jay Leno built here in Auburn Washington by Wicked Customs, it was at minimum what evintho said above in his post.
When still working on my 34, I stopped in there to ask a price and walked out in my fruit of the Looms just from asking the question.

BTW. I knew the Rodder who had them build this, Bruce Levin owner of Bayside Disposal in Seattle and cl***mate of my wife of Franklin high school. Bruce was every bit the rod guy as any of us, of course he had the $$$$$ it took to get her done. He was at many of the shows I attended and was a Buick guy, loved my '66 Rivi GS, mostly arrived at these in his great '47 Sedan or his Vette and always looked Jan and I up to say hi. He commissioned.
Wicked to build this '51 but never saw it or drove it as he p***ed, (2017) before it was finished. Missed by hundreds in the Seattle business community and friends in the car hobby world there was a huge memorial held for him. Please Google Bruce Leven memorial for more info on this wonderful, sweet and great man and I mean that with all sincerity. Such a horrible loss to all that knew him.
He owned a garbage collection firm out of Seattle, and he p***ed before this car was finished. He Raced All the big races in the nation all his life, won many
The Bruce I knew and met was always a car nut. Meeting him at one of my wife's cl*** reunions as he and his wife exited his new corvette, recognized Jan, and became another car guy buddy for myself.

Another edit. An hr. later after the last edit. I did not know of Bruce's p***ing or of his racing life. I'm absolutely dumbstruck. When sitting or standing and BSing at a show n shine or at a cl*** reunion or what ever I would never think in a million years he was the Seattle celebrity he was, racing celebrity he was. He was truly,...........truly a phenomenal person. That he was never able to see his custom 51, or drive it is much more than shame to me. at the very least it is a major travesty.

Another edit: Tuesday morning 3/12/2024
I deleted My first Line impugning the integrity of all Washington State Shops, I profusely apologize for doing so. That line questioned honesty and that comes about from me be being a staunch, deep Conservative. So much that when I spit the color of that spittle is red and my nails when trimmed grow back Crimson in color.

 

^^^^ Thanks for the link to Jay driving that car. Saw it at GNRS or LARS years ago, really nice build.

 

Shop rate? Per hour?.................. Does that include actually producing something...... Or does it include smoking cigarettes, sitting and staring, eating cheese puffs, and drinking soda or beer, starring a a smart phone, and shooting the B.S.

 

That was pretty much what I did for 28 years. Those last few years, a lot of the "old cars" were less then 10 years old.
I was the only stupid guy in our area that did that stuff, and after I closed, no one has been doing it since.
I believe that was a large part of my shop insurance issue, the insurance companies don't want old cars on the roads anymore. If they could eliminate that kind of work, everyone would buy newer cars.