First off I want to say thank you to everyone who has answered any of my questions pertaining to dad's 49 that I'm figuring out. It means alot as he wasn't able to teach me. Now, the question at stake. The car has a 3 speed with od. Everything works as I believe it should. Now I do remember when riding with dad in the car, he'd have the overdrive handle pushed in, and when he would get to 28 to 30 mph, we would hear a sound that resembled a freewheel on a bicycle, or like a ratcheting sound. However, he would let off the gas and it would go right into overdrive. I know nothing about adjusting the cable or where it should be adjustment wise. It still retains the 6v solenoid as well. But like I said, it works, but just makes that sound. What can I do to remedy this? The OD was rebuilt before dad bought the car.
Page 9-10 B mechanical, 22. Sounds like the cable is not quite in adjustment. I was taught that the handle should be 1/8 to 1/4” of bottoming out when pushed in. To make sure the arm is all the way back. And the cable needs to allow full travel in the other direction also. Mainly means the outer housing is clear for the travel distance needed. (I hope that makes sense, I didn’t say it very well). https://www.oldwillysforum.com/forum/TechData/BWOverdriveManual.pdf
Push the knob in, pause 1/2 second, lift acc. pedal ... And remember, when you park it, pull the knob out!
I can push the knob in while driving? I thought I had to be stationary to push The knob in. I know I have to be sitting still to pull it out.Just not sure.
OK, some say that you can move the cable in or out while driving, in fact I think the manual says you can but I think this is true ONLY while the unit is NOT in over drive. So be very careful in this area. As far as the cable adjustment goes, when adjusting, make sure the lever on transmission is all the way to the "stop" when the cable is pushed in all the way. The cable could be 1/8" to 1/4" from all the way in when the lever hits the stop as said above, this would be ok and it would insure the lever goes all the way to the stop. I'm not using the "correct" Ford cable on my set up and it seams to not have enough travel to move the lever from stop to stop so mine is adjusted so that the lever does not travel all the way to it's stop when the cable is pulled out. The important thing is that the lever hits its stop when the cable is pushed in. When driving, you should not hear any noise from the overdrive unit. if the cable is pushed in all that should happen is that when you hit the governor preset speed 27mph or 37mph and lift the accelerator pedal a little it should go into overdrive. Any grinding , ratcheting noise would not be good. When parking, if you put the shift lever in reverse, this will lock out the overdrive so the car will not freewheel. What happens when you put it in reverse is that inside the transmission, through linkage it will slide the same collar that the cable moves into the non-overdrive position. But the main thing about all this is, you should not hear any noise as it goes into overdrive. I would think this noise is either the splines on that movable collar clashing with the planetary unit (not good) or the locking paw trying to engage with the blocking ring, I think that is what they call it. You can find the Borg Warner manual online for this, this will show you how it all works. Anyhow, let us know what you found out.
Here miker98038 has given you book, chapter, and verse. Read the manual and become the expert. I'm in the process of rebuilding two of these B-W overdrives. Do yourself a favor and unbolt the cable from the Manual Control Lever (page one, BW OVERDRIVE MANUAL, part#24). Manipulate the MCL with your hand, noticing very little spring action and strength needed to maneuver this critical part leaving the lever in the AFT (rearward position). Go sit in the driver's seat and make sure the cable is positioned ALL THE WAY IN. Go back underneath and connect the cable. The cable is now ready for operation. As far as pulling the cable while driving I don't do this (120k+ miles, personal B-W overdrive experience). The main reason is that parts for these are extremely rare and often very expensive. I view this transmission as actually two transmissions, One, Overdrive capable, cable control pushed IN, Two, Regular 3 speed, cable pulled OUT. I use this mostly when hauling a load of firewood in my half ton Chevy, others like this feature when descending steep two lane roads, a good decision. I pull the cable in or out when the vehicle is stopped, overly cautious? Probably, but high mileage, no failures, 8 rebuild experience of these transmissions, I'm either lucky or doing something right.
The kinda wide gear ratio spread of a 3 speed with overdrive always seemed to me as a pretty good match for a stock type powerband. "Better" than most wide ratio 4 speeds. Not sure about a T10 with 3.42 first etc.
If you have a ratcheting sound, it has to be the pawl for the overdrive. When you hit 28 -30 mph, the solenoid tries to push in the pawl to lock the sun gear to the case. There is a rudimentary blocking mechanism to prevent the ratcheting called a balking ring. It blocks the OD pawl from trying to mesh into the spinning "gear" attached to the sun gear until the gear stops. It works much like the schronizers in front part of the transmission. The only way I know to verify its operation is with the transmission apart. The balking ring should have a slight drag on it when you turn the inner part by hand. I'm guessing it no longer has that required drag.
Don’t be surprised if you need to read that manual more than once. My advice has always been to print 2 copies. One in the garage for greasy fingerprints, and the other by the throne for when you can concentrate.
A lot of good advice, but I will clarify just when you can pull out/push in the cable. First thing to understand is the cable doesn't 'shift' the trans into OD, it's an enable/disable feature. When enabled with the cable in, the electric solenoid/governor do the actual shifting. You can push the cable in (enabling OD) at any time, moving or not. Pulling the cable out to disable OD is a mechanical operation, and can only be done under one of three scenarios without risking causing damage. One, anytime you're fully stopped. Engine stopped or running, it doesn't matter, just as long as you're not moving. Two, when using 'p***ing gear'. All BW ODs with intact and fully operable wiring have this feature. When you floor the gas in OD, the ignition circuit is interrupted for 1/2 revolution of the crankshaft, 'unloading' the transmission. The solenoid then shifts out of OD and once the shift is complete, it re-establishes the ignition circuit. You'll feel/hear a quick 'hesitation' in the motor as it shifts. This is electrically interlocked to prevent damage. Without fully releasing the throttle (keeping the transmission 'loaded'), you can now pull out the cable locking OD out. This is a great feature for two reasons. First is you usually don't need to physically downshift to p***, just floor it and it drops into 'standard'. Second, if you're going down a long grade and need engine braking so you don't run out of brakes (a real thing, trust me! LOL!), you can get out of OD this way without stopping. Third, when going slow, below the governor 'enable' speed. The governor when starting from a stop, has to reach roughly 27 MPH before it will enable the OD to engage. But it will also disengage OD if your speed drops to 23 MPH or less while 'coasting' (no throttle applied). I'll note here these speeds can vary by a couple of MPH either way depending on rear axle ratio and tire size. When you 'coast' to below the enable speed, you'll feel/hear a small 'clunk' which is the trans shifting into 'standard' (out of OD). If you apply light throttle to 'load' the trans, you can pull the cable out. Personally, I almost always ran mine with the cable in (OD enabled) and simply shifted into reverse when parked so it wouldn't 'coast' away. That got me 20+ MPG even in town with 'normal' driving. But the lack of engine braking in OD on long downgrades could be a real issue with the OEM drum brakes most of these cars had, it only took once to teach me that... That was one of the reasons these transmissions disappeared. One last thing bears mentioning. After I killed the second T86/R10 in my '56 Ford (behind a 223 six!), the guy who sold me rebuilt units told me 'Quit speed-shifting 'em kid. That kills the syncros and the OD will 'mask' that for a while... until the OD fails'. He was right, after I quit beating on them they held up. The T85/R11 units were very robust and could take abuse, the lighter-duty Ford/T86/R10 trans were pretty fragile and didn't suffer abuse well. If after adjusting the cable you still have anything other than a small 'clunk' when the OD shifts, get it looked at before it gets too expensive.
I don't know anyone around me that knows these things. Everyone is trying to talk me into putting a 5 speed in it and I don't want to because it's not a highway warrior. Just a cool cruiser
Blocking ring and key that attaches to the solinoid. Solinoid in Solinoid out Cable engaged cable disengaged reverse will disengage the sun gear from the blocking ring on my 319. Reverse seems to be locked out when the cable is pulled on my Saginaw. The key attached to the soliniod will block reverse as well when engaged
I'm not sure when the reverse kickout was added. The later ODs had a switch on the back or the unit that was wired to disrupt current to the solenoid when the transmission is shifted into reverse. The OD does not like being turned backwards. With older units you could not just leave them in OD. It doesn't seem like it would click into OD unless you were going 28mph in reverse but ?
Six Ball, got any idea which models were made with the electric only lock out? In all the time I’ve been around them (and they’ve all been Ford’s) all I’ve ever seen or heard of was the internal reverse rail lock out. I have heard of some custom installations of R-11’s behind Ford top loaders, and don’t know how those where handled.
I’ve got a couple Studebaker r10s that have the reverse electrical switch One came from a 54. Don’t know if it’s original to that car
My son's '54 Conestoga had one. I just figured it was an upgrade that happened in the late 40s or early 50s. There is a rod inside that is moved rearward when you shift into reverse. The rod depresses the switch through the case and breaks the ground to the solenoid just like the governor does. That keeps the solenoid from locking in the OD. I have a few of them that have the switch all are Studebaker. They are BW T86 R10. I am putting on e in my '26 Chevy roadster with a top shifter from a Jeep. T90? These things are fun to drive. Not real strong but my Chevy II four banger won't be as tough on it as my son's supercharged 289 Stude v8 was. I don't know a lot about the other makes but the manual above list a lot of brands. Internal parts are almost all the same except for the transmission main shafts. Cases me be specific to the makes. I have a couple if T85 R11s that are a lot stronger. One of mine is Studebaker & one if Ford. There are ways if wiring that work around the stock cut outs. There is an article about that somewhere. I just remembered I have a '49- ? Merc transmission with an OD. I'll try to check it for the reverse switch tomorrow.
The top of this rod will contact the reverse switch That would operate the solinoid so you can use reverse
Thanks Six Ball and Anthony. Always good to learn something new. Now, if I just remember it. Edit. Oddly enough, that made me remember something. Dad made a remark when I was leaning about those the some brand had a “hill hold” feature to stop from rolling back when you needed to start on a hill. Something to do with the o/d. Ford didn’t have them, I think maybe he said Hudson. This was nearly 50 years ago, I’ll bet I haven thought of that since. Ring any bells with anyone?
Studebaker, Again my son's wagon had a hill holder. On an incline when you pressed on the brake a ball rolled into a slot and held the brake line pressure so you could take your right foot off of the brake pedal while the left one held the clutch in. Your right foot was free to press the accelerator. As you released the clutch linkage moved the ball releasing the brake line pressure. It worked really well. The starter was activated by pushing the clutch pedal all the way to the floor so even if you started the car in gear it wouldn't move. It had a hand cranked retractable radio antenna. Probably some other cool features I don't remember tight now. A very cool car.
I was surprised to to find the new-to-me Manual transmission 2013 Mazda CX-5 has a "hill holder" feature. Uphill and down hill. No idea how it works, but it works well. Undoubtedly electronics and government surveillance are involved.
The Hill Holder in all the new cars that have it use the antilock brake system to hold fluid pressure to the wheel brakes. Has nothing to do with the transmission.
Thank you all very much for all of the information you have provided. It's appreciated more than you know
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