Technical 392 Hemi with rust pitting cylinder wall salvageable?

See the attached pic. This is a standard bore block I'm thinking about buying. The only thing I have is the picture. I have not personally seen the block.

 

Are you planning on boring it,,,or did you need a standard bore ?
It should clean up after boring,,,only an in person inspection can tell for sure .

Tommy

 

Looks like a decent ridge also. Most likely needed to be bordered anyway. But I agree that from the pic it should clean up.

 

Yes, I was planning on boring but .015 on a side is not very much. I think it might be close. I don't want to go more than .030

 

That ain't going to clean at .030". If it's been in a freeze/thaw area I'd be concerned about where else water has been sitting in that block.

I'd figure on at least sleeving that hole and some extra time inspecting/pressure testing the block as a whole.

I'm not all that familiar with 392s, so I went looking. There is some info here:

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/max-392-bore-size.522418/

 

I agree with Jag ,
It won’t clean up at .030,,,,,,should at .060,,,,,,but,,,,it needs a better, closer pic to judge for sure .
It might need .080,,,,,but that’s a waste considering if that’s the only bad one .

I would choose a sleeve for that one cylinder,,,,if that’s all the damage it has .
Sleeve one and bore the others to match .

My DeSoto block cleaned at .020,,,,,but I had to go back and sleeve two cylinders after because of pitting .
My fault,,,,I didn’t preclean the block as good as I thought .
#1 & #2 were badly pitted,,,,,,and I had already bought my pistons and bored the block .
But,,,,it was better to sleeve two ,,,than rebore,,And,,,buy another set of pistons .

Tommy

 

It's in Northern California so not a lot of freeze potential but 70 years is 70 years. I've never sleeved anything before. Are sleeves good for a performance application with an OE block? I understand aftermarket blocks are buy they are designed that way.

 

I wonder how sleeving affects the integrity of the bore. Especially with a 392 and known core shift issues.

 

It gets plenty cold in northern CA . I know of several boats that cracked blocks in
Santa Rosa years ago and further north it is more common .

A sleave will work and is a common fix . If it wont clean up id keep looking on some engine your likely to have $10,000 before its all said and done. the cost to install a sleve is not cheap also it might be more than your paying for the block. machine work has gotten really expensive these days.

buyng a 70 year old block that bare for unknown reasons is always a crap shoot

 

You cannot tell if that will or will not clean at .030 by just looking at a picture, usually the scale makes it look way worse than it is. Take it to a good machine shop, have it crack checked first, it it's ok than have them set up on that cylinder first then they can tell you what it will take to clean it up and you can go from there. If it is too bad a sleeve done properly is a very good and dependable fix.

 

392's are not thick wall blocks. Unless something has changed, a 3/32" sleeve is the thinest you will find. It it's a real good hole, you would be ok. If not, you will have wasted time. Only you know the value of this to you.

 

392"s are no more difficult to sleeve than any other V8 of that era; they're sleeved all the time. No, sleeves are not cheap, but it is a way to salvage a rare block.

FWIW, we got in one which had already been bored to the max, so all eight holes were sleeved back to standard.

The block will then need to be square decked and line honed, so budget for that.

jack vines

 

At this point I would buy it allowing for the worst case of sleeving all eight holes. Ounce you have it home borrow, rent, or buy a FIXED hone and with some course stones get a feel for the out-of-round and taper as well as a better look at the pitted area. It may look better, or with the scale off, worse. After getting the hole round without taper measure it and you should have a good feel how much overbore it will take to clean it up. Before doing any machine work get it cracked and pressure checked.

 

Thanks, I will. Were you able to view the picture and zoom in. Looks like some of the pits are deep.

 

Do sleeves affect the integrity of the cylinder wall in anyway?

 

No. The repaired cylinder will be as strong as the original. We've sleeved race engines where a rod flailed a hole in the cylinder wall. The engine went out and won races.

On some wimp iron, SBCs for example, driving in a sleeve will distort the adjacent cylinders. That's why I say plan on square decking and line honing.

jack vines

 

If the other cyls will clean up @ .030 just sleeve the 1 cyl.

 

Unless you are restoring the vehicle this engine came out of and want numbers matching, why would you invest so much in a clearly stressed block. The added cost to clean, inspect, repair this block to just start rebuilding would be better spent on a less stressed engine. It is not cheap to rebuild a hemi correctly when everything is in good shape, why add to the pain. JMO
Joe

 

It’s not like 30 years ago and SBCs, not easy to find a 392. I never looked back then, but I bet it wasn’t even easy to find one at that time.
Was mentioned in another thread it cost around 20K to have an early Hemi fully done.
500 bucks (guesstimate) for a few sleeves is a drop in the bucket, assuming nothing shows up mag testing it, etc.

 

Definitely not easy, but not impossible to find. A little patience and willingness to travel. I am just finishing up a rebuild on a 1953 Chrysler 331. Drove 10hrs round trip to pick up a very clean, complete block with 4 speed tranny. Block had never had any machine work done to it. Still had stock internals with minimal wear. Went .010 over on mains and rods, .030 on bores, Standard on cam. Machine work on this very clean/original engine was still 6.5k. With new wear parts and replacement pistons, cam another 4k in to it. So yup expect to pay for a hemi rebuild. I would just want to be sure I was putting that money into a good solid block. Rust in the bores almost assures you of rust in other areas, both seen and unseen. Probably paid a little more upfront on the block, but I have no worries about the unseen parts. Your right a few sleeves is no big deal, but what else is going on or has gone on with this block?

 

If the engine was that nice everything was probably within serviceable limits. You could have just ball honed and polished the crank. I never machine anything unless it absolutely needs it. You could have rebuilt that engine for the price of rings, gaskets, and bearings. Cam and lifters for $500 new, total cost would have been 2K or less for total build. Machine work for a Hemi is the same price as a SBC. For a mild build you can stick with stock Hemi valvetrain.

 

Yes I could have chosen that approach. The bearing surfaces and cylinder walls had minimal wear. However all the cylinders and the rod/mains were out of round and had high magnetism. The mag is indicative of wear and heat as I understand it. I don't find it very appealing when a nice old car rolls down the street with a smoky engine. Yes the engine would have run, probably would have smoked more than just a little without having the heads redone. I get that not everyone is in a position to spend money when not absolutely necessary, but I have decided that at 55+ years old I don't want the hot rod I could have built when I was 19. I want all the new/best things I wish I could have bought as that 19yr old. My enjoyment is in the build as much if not more than the driving of my projects. In the end there is always the "right way" to do something and then there is the "good enough" ways to do things. I personally am done with "GOOD ENOUGH".

 

Typically in the past it was $100 per hole. One of the reasons I said sleeve the 1 cyl. I asked the machine shop on my current 331 to find how much would fix the pit in one cylinder & measure the rest. I wanted to sleeve the one cylinder and go .030 on the block. Shop didn't call except to say the block was done at .060.

 

Some random thoughts... You are smart for wanting to keep the bore at 030 but you really have to have your hands on the block to see if that is practical. ALL depending on the sonic check, do you sleeve one hole to attain the goal or cut all at 040 or 060? No, I do not like 060 392 blocks but wall thickness controls everything.
In another thread some said they are comfortable with 0.130 on the thrust side, I rarely go below 0.180 but, that's just me. Be sure to check square on the decks.

 

With all due respect, a "long bell" 331 is nowhere near as desirable as a 392. Twenty years ago, they were pretty common in my neck of the woods.

 

"However all the cylinders and the rod/mains were out of round and had high magnetism."

Interesting about the magnetism.
That deserves some mulling over.

 

I would bet that ma Chrysler made a thousand 331 Hemi engines for every one 392.

 

55 and retired,,,,you obviously don’t want for much .
Good looking avatar too .

I’m tickled for you,,,,,really,,,,,,I hope you live to be a 100 !
I’m sure you earned it .

Pardon me,,,,,would you happen to have any Grey Poupon !
Lol,,,,just kidding .

Tommy

 

Tommy, I do like your new avatar. "...the place where Honor rests..."