LoL, ok thanks. I am trying right now to determine if the drums and backing plates (the Lincoln’s)can be made to work on the 8” axle. I know that the drums would fit ok with the appropriate backing plate. I try not to repeat what I have already posted on other threads and to ask as specific a question as I can when starting a new thread. This subject, just like many others, could be addressed a whole lot easier by having a conversation but with my old arthritic fingers, trying to put it all in writing is a challenge. In addition to that, some of the people that make comments have not read the original post and are commenting based on the information in the last one or two comments. FWIW, here’s what started this: I had a stock Model A Banjo axle with stock brakes and all was good. Then I purchased and installed the Boling Brothers Lincoln brakes and found that they add 1.5” per side and I did not have .25” to spare. I could not find anybody that could narrow a Banjo axle so I had to look for alternatives. A 10 bolt from an S-10 (2WD) would be perfect (54” wide) except for the need for a 5 X 5.5” pattern. Sure, adapters are available to convert from 5 X 4.5” to 5 X 5.5” but hey would add a minimum of .75” per side so I would be back where I started. A number of people commented that if I had to use a “modern” axle, a Ford 8” or 9” would look better than a 10 bolt. The pumpkin ona 9” is pretty big and heavy to stuff onto a stock Model A frame so the best answer was an 8”. I learned that at 56.375” the 8” used on a Maverick is the “narrowest” 8” ever made. The search began for one of those and in an extremely rare bit of luck, I found one for sale locally and bought it. It has way to high of a gear ratio, and the bolt pattern is wrong, but at least I found one. I will throw in here that nobody involved with the sale of the Lincoln brakes mentions anywhere in their literature that they will add 1.5” per side. I am very disappointed about that but there is nothing I can do about that. I can’t return the brakes (which were EXTREMELY expensive) because I painted them before I installed them (hopefully, I won’t make that mistake again). Before I bought the 8” I checked with Dutchman about availability of getting to correct axles for the bolt pattern and I was told they could. Then yesterday, when I called them I got a different tech support guy I was told that “well, no we cant provide axles that will work after all because all the 8” axles are “small bearing” and the only axles available 5 X 5.5” are “large bearing”. This takes us to the start of this thread. Alchemy, look, you are clearly very knowledgeable about many hot rod related topics but your bedside manner is not great. I value your input but as I was told when I was a kid “be nice”. That’s all I can think to say about that. Everybody up to speed now?
Yes 05 you are correct. On this particular subject it seems that no amount of money can solve this. I believe that I have the skills needed to narrow an axle housing but that’s irrelevant if I can find axles to fit. I did learn here that there is that outlier about the Bronco axle being small bearing, and the difference in length (small as it is) could probably just be cut off because there is “probably” enough extra spline that 1” (or so) cut off would be OK.
Since I had to have an axle narrowed regardless of what Banjo I used, I figured that I would buy an axle from a V8 instead of a Banger axle. I found one of those locally as well but that’s when I learned that there is nobody that can narrow the axles in a Banjo (tapered on one end and with the gear already on the other end (there was, but near as I can find out, they’re all dead). All in all, this is ridiculous, and I do mean ridiculous. If I was willing to not use the wire wheels, or if I would go to a different tire, I could solve the problem but I want the look I want and if I can’t get it I may just sell the whole dam thing and move on. Alchemy, maybe you can talk to your nephew for me? Or, give me his name so that I can talk to him (unless of course, he’s their accountant LoL)
There is (at least one) suggestion that I did not respond to; the use of a Jeep axle. It just so happens that I own a ‘48 Willys Jeep so know those axles well. I tried hard to make that work but the “pumpkin” is offset quite a bit on those. Otherwise both the width and the bolt pattern are right. I do not know enough about drivelines to know how much of the offset could be accommodated.
How thick is the “thick” spacer? Could somebody post a link for me? I don’t know just what to search for. Does anybody think that the thick spacer could also be made to change the bolt pattern as well? An S10 axle is narrow enough but then there is the bolt pattern to deal with again, and the a thick spacer. By the time I do all that I’m back to too wide again.
Specs says these are 1-1/8" thick. https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Aluminum-1928-35-Ford-Wire-Wheel-Adapter-5-x-4-1-2-Inch,94209.html I'll have to look; but I remember the short axle is quite a bit shorter on a Maverick rear. Maybe cut one side and use two short axles don't know where that would put the pinion tho.
Go to HRW and buy their v8 quick change. Send them 40 bells or have them supply them. Have them cut down the bells and put big bearing ends on them. Have them use Ford 9" axles drilled for 5x5-1/2. Have them weld spring hangars to top of the bells. Have them use as much of your Boling bros brake system as possible. Specify open or closed driveshaft. Tell them how wide you need the backing plate to backing plate dimension which they can accommodate when narrowing bells and axles. Go to your piggybank and get $6000.00 PROBLEM SOLVED.
There may an alternative to allow use of a narrowed V8 banjo. Hot Rod Works used to make a bolt in 9-inch style axle conversion. That should allow you to use a narrowed banjo housing and the 5x5.5 bolt pattern. I think? HRW was recently sold to a new owners, but they should still be making the conversion parts. edit: 1946Caddy answered the same as my reply while I was typing. Same suggestion.
Does anyone know if there is a difference in the locating diameter between big bearing, and small bearing axles? I have found a pair of big bearing axles, can I just remove the big bearings, and install the small bearings?
As for the Willy’s jeep rearend you would need to find a 1972 to 1975 cj5 or cj6. The pumpkin would be centered on the Dana 44 rearend and would have solid axles not the taper key as the earlier and later jeeps. I don’t ever remember having such a hard time putting wire wheels on a model A or 32 with or without fenders. Also why would the Lincoln brakes add 2.5 inches to the width does it have a spacer? The drum sits on the axle face or does it have something else on it? I’m no rocket scientist but have made parts for military rockets
The key dimension (I learned from yet another call to B Bros today) is 3 1/8” from the housing flange to the hub face where the drum would mount. That is 1.5” more (per side) than a stock A backing plate and hub.
Most problems can be solved if you can throw enough money at it but I’m afraid $6k is a bit out of my range LoL (a QC would be awesome tho). Thanks for the link Rich, that helps some. I can see obviously the change in bolt pattern but what it’s doing specifically for wire wheels looks like something the “thin” adapter/spacers would due just fine.
John, in the end it’s the tire size and the fact that I would like to have a decent amount of suspension travel. I have ridden in enough Model A’s that have about 1” of travel. Maybe 50 years ago but…….
Then find another short axle, shorten your 8" housing, add the wheel adapters from Speedway and you're right there. Your drive shaft will be off center by 2 1/2" at the rear. And we won't have to hear anymore about it.
My friend here in France had the same issue in his 29 Ford roadster HiBoy. His rear is a 60" wide Cougar. His only solution was to shorten the housing 4" on each side so he could run the 35 16" Ford wire wheels. He previously had steelies. He first bougtht the Speedway adapter /spacer because of bolt pattern difference and the fact that the spoke wheels don't just fit on the 8" rear. He had to buy new you shorten axles from Summit at about $275 ea. He had them along with new bearings all Air Freighted to France. Now he started shortening the housing. Its all coming together BUT now the buggy spring mounts have to be brought in. He is dealing with that now.
I am running K-H bent spoke wires on the back of my 32. The axle has 8" backing plates and drums. I had a local wheel shop cut out the 5 X 5.5" center and weld in a 5 X 4.5" center from a later Ford to suit. I can't remember the backspace but it's written on the board in my shed if you're interested. The 5 x 4.5" center is located so the inner wheel hub clears the brake drum. Can't you get wheelkid here on the HAMB to do this to fix your problem. It was a common modification here in Australia along with cutting down 18, 17 and 16" wires to 15" when 15's were the go back when. Wheel spacers are banned here in Australia.
If you are going to narrow the housing and use custom axles, I'm fairly certain you can put bearing housing ends the axle housing to fit whatever it is you're gonna use. Years ago, I use to build axle housings for local racers. On one job, I put Chrysler housing ends (cut from a junkyard 8 3/4" mopar housing) on a 12 bolt gm housing because that's what axles and brakes the guy had.
As I get it, the “thick” spacer is used to provide the needed clearance to allow for that “rim” that runs around the inside of the wire wheel. It has always been my understanding that the original purpose of that rim was to provide support by mating up with the drum. The “thin” spacer allows the rim to press against the Lincoln drum (which has a unique tapered face on it). The thick spacer used on a modern drum would not provide that support would it? Or is that 1.125” thickness of the spacer/adapter sized to allow that rim on the wheel to press up against a “modern” flat drum?
I believe that Speedway spacer/adapter is 1.250 which accounts for the clearance.Their adapter has the raised portion machined in to account for the proper support for the Ford spoke wheel.
Amazing how many guys don't read through the whole thread before answering. I'd say that you are far ahead going with the Quick performance axles. Early Bronco stuff isn't cheap even used and trying to mix and match axles and housing although it sounds simple probably isn't in the long run. Plus if you were to lay one of those bolt pattern rings over the 8 inch axle flange it becomes evident that there isn't enough material in the flange to do a pattern. Now for a show of hands, How many didn't read the part about "cannot add width" and suggested adapters?
In his case the adapter does not add width but simply mounts the Ford spoke wheel on the modern flat surface drum.
I'll throw one more idea out here... The larger axle flange won't fit inside the Maverick drums. But before going down the drum-swapping rabbit hole, how about modding the axle flanges and existing drums? Quick offers a 'lightened flange' service, have the flange cut down into a 'star' pattern (which I've seen). Then cut five properly-sized holes in the drum to allow the flange 'points' to stick through. Shouldn't hurt the drum integrity any, and cutting close-tolerance holes will help for keeping 'stuff' out of the brakes. This will add zero width, maybe even gain a bit more clearance, and if spacers are needed for the wheels, no problem. Just make sure when ordering the axles to get the correct hub size to register the drums.
Some good thought’s. Steve, I talked to QP earlier today and they can supply an axle for an 8” or a 9” axle with a 5x5.5 pattern flange and the 3.125 Bearing Offset needed for the Lincoln brakes that I already have. With that I could deal with brakes and bolt pattern in one step. They could provide it in any length as well. Any thoughts on shifting the pinion to 1.25” off center (so I could get away with only cutting one end of the housing)?
Mike, I wish you lived in my town! Yes, if I was going to cut and weld the housing I could change the ends to “big bearing” if I wanted to. I would just have to buy new ends (which are available new but like anything else, they ain’t cheap and it all sure do add up in a hurry.
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