Need Advice - Negotiating the Price of a car

Please give me the rules of the road regarding negotiating the price of a car. What is the etiquette, if there is any.

Let me give you some hypothetical situations:

1) I find a car, I like it, the owner is asking 2k to 3k more than I think the car is worth, or by doing my homework know its over priced. Do I make him an offer well below his asking price and piss him off, try to explain why I am making the offer. Make the offer without explaination, or just move on.

2) Does cash talk, I know cash talks when you are dealing for parts etc.. but what about cars? Is handing him cash, gonna get me anywhere over a cashier check, if we are doing this thing face to face.

3) I was told not to pick apart the car, the owner should know its pluses and minuses just make him an offer. true or false

4) I hate screwing people and I hate getting screwed I just want to be fair. Is that an old fashion belief, held by me, a old fashion guy?

5) Do you haggle on price then ask if you pay cash will he go a little lower or do you tell him up front you got cash?

I just don't do this enough to know.

Thanks

 

2 or 3k is relative. Especially if the guy built or has some sort of personal stake in it. I know sentimentality has no value to anyone else, but there it is. A friend's father died and left him a bunch of speed parts. Another friend went to look, thought it was overpriced, and offended the guy by saying so. If he's asking $22,000 and you offer $20,000, you may drive it home. If he's asking $4000 and you offer $2000, you may be walking home with a pocket full of ****** chicklets. My rule of thumb is if I think it's worth within 10 or 15 percent, I'll make an offer accordingly. Otherwise, I don't bother.

 

I would ****er the guy ten to fifteen percent or to what you think is a fair price without deriding the car. If I have a car for sale and someone starts talking it down, I just explain the car is off the market no matter how much money they might have. I am a nice guy to deal with when i am selling my cars unless someone starts ridiculing my work, then I get offended and the deal is no longer going to happen. Being a nice guy with a pocket full of cash is a lot better than an ***hat with a cashiers check.

 

This is just my deal, cant say it was written down anywhere but what I follow.

Usually if I'm selling something I ask a tad more than what I want for it (usually unless I want it gone right then, then its rock bottom pricing) then its open for negotiation. If a sled is 2-3K more than its worth or worth to you, Then I walk away, My methodology if the price is a few hundred I'll come down 50-100 bucks and wont get "insulted" if its a few K more than I'm willing to spend, I know I wouldnt come down that much and walk....that said I watched some deals go down at the turkey run where cash talked and the guys ended up gettign a 2-3K discount (and in one case 5K).

On higher priced items If I have a price in mind I use the multi pocket rule, the specified amountIhave in mind in the right pocket and the rest of my cash stashed in increments in other pockets, whip out the green and start dealin.

Really its situational dependent If a car/item is getting lotsa attention, the price wont move a whole lot, where as if its not getting any attention then the price can move, depends on how bad they want it gone, you just gotta feel out the situation and go from there. Bottom line, throw an offer out, whats the worst that can happen? they say no and you'll never see em again.

 

If you don't have cash he'll probably say you're wasting his time. Unless it's a high-dollar deal which would require you talking to your banker, and you want to negotiate a little first, he should understand that.

 

A smile, kind talk about the car, and a fist full of cash seem to work the best for me.

Be polite, tell them you really like the car and make your offer - mentioning it's a cash offer, as in right now cash - and see what happens. Really that's all you can do.

If the seller is offended you can try to let them know that's all it worth to you but it's really up to them. If they're not gonna sell, then that's the end of that.

I've personally only been offended once when selling a car. The guy offered me $100 on a $600 (very reasonable or so I thought) asking price. I just walked away from him without saying a word. That's all I could do.

 

What if the car is at one of these mom and pop car lots?

 

Don't feel bad about walking away if they won't come close to your offer.

 

At that point, it's purely business. Don't sweat walking away, and don't hesitate to walk if they can't meet your price.

 

It's no different than buying anything used from an individual..Don't be a jerk,or tell him his car is a POS...Obviously,if you want the car,he'll take that kind of talk as proof that you're a timewasting ***hole...I've paid asking price,gladly,and I've walked away,sometimes to regret later,sometimes not.It really is a game...Had a guy look at a 40 coupe years ago...I priced it,he looked,then left...guy lived about 200 miles from me..He called several times over the next month,and I still had the car..( wish I had it now..!!)..One morning he called about 6 AM...(***hole mistake number one)...we talked price,said he was on his way with a trailer....price was agreed by both of us...he shows up hours later,brings 4 of his stupid ****ing friends,and he's $800 short,and thinks he can make me sell him the car,him and his ****head buddies..It's really funny now,wasn't then..I told him to take a ****ing hike,and take his empty trailer with him..They wouldn't leave..They circled me and the damn car for an hour,while I was telling them to hit the road..Later sold the car for 3X the amount he wouldn't pay...
It really is a game,and an art..
Unless you're looking at something very unusual,or rare,be willing to walk away..

 

Dont go with a buch of buddies, Ill take 1 knowledgable car guy and simply talk with my buddy about what Im planning to do and whats gotta be done to make it a running driving, stoping, safe car. Alot of times people look on Ebay or the net and see the prices for a built, done car. This is where they get the price from. they have a falsley inflated price on the car cause they saw one getting what they are asking. Be polite and knowledgeable. and remember it wont be the last one you see in most cases. (dont tell my wife I said that!!)

 

If it's on a used car lot, there will be no hurt feelings. They've heard it all before, and will again. Offer what you want to pay, it's as simple as that. If you think you paid too much, it'll gnaw at you. I always offer half of asking price. They want to sell, you don't have to buy. If they get pissed and refuse to sell (like what was said here) walk away and find another one. Then go back and show them your new car, and mention you got it for a FAIR price. The looks you recieve are priceless.

 

Car salesmen don't have feelings!

 

So half the asking price is always fair? WTF? If you offer me half the asking price, I won't let you waste any more of my time than you already have.

Slonaker

 

I have bought cars that everyone said " can not be bought "



My guidelines for me are

1) always have cash ... it doe affect some folks and it does not give the folks time to think about it or change their mind. PLUS their wife will pressure them ... most of the time to sell ... if she sees cash.

2) always be clean and nice ... but do not look like a " Bankroll "

3) I never talk price unless I am really interested.

4) I do not talk about " all the cars I had " ... it makes you look like a used car dealer

5) If the car is worth the $$$ I generally try to get some $$$ off but not upset the guy. If he is at 20 grand .. I might offer 18 grand ... hoping to get it for 19 grand... when he says NO ... 20 is it ... I say how about 1/2 way ... you would be surprised how many times it works.

6) Never upset the seller if you can ... he may have another car you want later ( or even then ) Try to always leave on good terms. I have had them call back later and ask if my offer was still good.

 

NEVER want a car too much, and don't be afraid to walk away from it. Be polite, leave your number and wait. If you have cash, that gives you a little more leverage, as they know you're not just a tire kicker. Do you homework on the car you are going to look at. Are parts available, what may have been changed that the seller doesn't know about. If you can act like you know at least as much about the car as he does, (on a lot, not one someone has built) you have a bit more stroke. Good hunting, and be patient-the right will turn up-THEN pull the trigger.

 

#1- ALWAYS bring cash. it's the smell, it does something to human males.

#2- bring a Knowledgable car buddy. Even if you know cars- we all get a little starstruck every now and then- I know, I have talked alot of friends out of alot of cars they didn't need.

#3-Multi pocket works-to a point. if you have 4 grand in 100's in 1 pocket and 3 more in another, the full pocketsare a giveaway- hand it to your buddy, and instruct him to put it in his wallet. if you get beat on the haggle, arrange a look so he can "loan" you some additional bread.Just be sure to buy him dinner.

#4- the basic rule is this. the first person to talk after an offer is made loses. if you say "I'll give you 1800 for it," and he says "19" on a 2000 dollar deal, you win. however, if you say 18 and he say nope, you lose. everything else is quibbling, and you will fold to 2 if that is what he wants for it...make sense?

#5-that is why before you shout a number, you AND your buddy discuss the car-be friendly, don't beat it to death, you are on the owners time,after all-and have a quiet conversation with your pal BEFORE you call the #. if he noticed it has a replaced quarter panel, and you didn't, that may not make the car worth any less, but it is noteworthy. all of what you did and didn't like should be discussed with the owner first BECAUSE (drum roll please) this is how you get cool old **** thrown in for free. "Gee, mister, I really like it, but I am questioning the Mustang 2 front end. what's that? you still have the original straight axle and you will throw that in?hmmm...well that makes it more interesting. let me talk it over with my pal here." or perhaps the fibergalss front end is rotten, and needs to be regelled- all of these points the owner may, or may not, be aware of-and be objective. there might be more you want to know about the car than was originally listed. you gotta chat the owner up a bit, let him know you're serious, and if you decide you don't want it, don't make a super low ball price to get him to send you home- just say," I was hoping it was more of what I was looking for, and it just is not. nice car,though, good luck with the sale!" and go home.- but leave your number with him. he might have a come to Jesus meeting with his wife and end up selling it to you cheap. I once bought a damn nice 70 442 because wifey and landlord wanted the car gone.
4 months later, I got the car for 50 bucks and I had to go get it right then- 4 months previous to that, it was 1500, and he got to keep the bucket seats. no deal turned into great deal.

 

Know what you're buying, and what it's worth to you. Everybody remembers the one they regret not buying.
If you are dealing in cash don't let that be known, unless you have a me along. Several me's, if you don't want to walk home broke and bruised.
I only deal alone if anyone's along they wait in the car, when I'm dealing if a bunch of people seem to be ganging up on me I just close shop.

 

Guys that offer me half or less on the asking never get anything, and if they come back later with one they claim they got for a "fair" price I'd just tell 'em to be happy they robbed someone who didn't know any better or didn't care, now that that one is sold the next guy has to buy mine.

I mean, unless I was trying to get a zillion bucks for a rusted out Pinto or something, offering more than 25% (tops) below the asking price is usually going to insult the seller, I find it obnoxious myself. If that's all you have or all you can afford, it's okay to put it in those terms, but don't be the ***hole that offered me $200 for a running, driving '55 Chrysler New Yorker with the 331 Hemi in it and a good solid body - that the asking price on was 25 times that.

I get that a lot though, I had a rough '53 Chevy ragtop going at $1500 and this guy offered me $500. Hell, after bringing it home, I had that in it. I asked him if he was joking. $1200, maybe $1000 would have been reasonable, but as it is by the time he got back to me I'd already sold it to someone else - for the asking price. Like the Chrysler, I could have sold two or three parts off it and gotten that little bit of money. I never need to sell anything so badly that I need to give it away for nothing. If I did, I'd have a big live auction for everything.

Also, don't tell me you can get a better one for less money - I don't care, if you can then go buy it and leave me alone. Don't tell me how rough my car is or what's wrong with it - I know that already. We're not talking an ordinary used car you need for transportation, where needing brakes or tires or something will impact your ability to get it inspected and use it right away. We're talking antique cars that have usually not been driven much and may not even run - they're going to have things wrong with them.

And last of all, if you don't like it for any reason - there's no reason to even talk to me. I get more notes from ***holes whining about how rough a car is or this or that or the other thing. So what? No one's making you buy it.

Basically, if you want it, you make a reasonable offer, if you don't think you can offer something reasonable to the seller, then say hey, I like it but I don't think I can make you a reasonable offer. That way you give the guy a chance to ask you what you want to spend and decide if getting that cash on the spot is better than holding out for top dollar.

 

I'm impressed that some of ya'll know so much about buying cars. I was a top salesman/manager/ finance guy at new car dealerships for 11 years, and I'm glad ya'll didn't come to my store.

Yes, car salesmen have feelings. But we've also heard it all before. Don't be rude, but don't be afraid to say what you think. You have a lot more invested in this transaction than the salesperson.

Belair is right on the money about not wanting it too much. I find that having 2-3 cars you are considering is a very valuable tool. Just like having 2-3 potential buyers is a tool for them. I'm not saying to lie. I'm saying that if there is a couple of cars that you go to look at when you are ready, you'll have a good idea of what you can buy for the money. Of course, it also puts a little pressure on the seller.

Lux's advice to 1. bring cash when it's safe
2. bring another set of eyes and ears to help
3. multi pocket the money
5. make sure you want the car before you talk $$$.

is all great advice and things I have found to be true. In fact, he's the guy I bring with me to check out cars.

But #4 is the single most important part a negotiations that every GOOD car salesman knows that very few customers use. In a cash purchase (non payments) the customer actually has the upper hand if they play it right. He's has already let you know his asking price, so it's only going down from there. Here's the crucial part. If you feel you need to justify the offer, do it before you give him the number. After you say the number, SHUT UP! He who speaks first loses. Period. So it goes like this, "Bob, I like the car and I have cash to buy it right now. But it has some issues that'll need attention and there are a couple of other cars I've looked at in this range. I'd be willing to buy it for $6000." (crickets chirping here)

What you've done is put the pressure on him. If he's a good salesperson, he won't take your first offer for a couple of reasons. One, because he knows everybody will come up at least a little bit from there first offer. Two, if he agrees to your first offer, you'll think you could have gotten it for less and might try to crawfish out of the deal. If he's real good (highly unlikely), he'll say "I'm not going to take $6000, what's the most you are willing to pay?" If he says that, turn and run!

And don't be afraid to leave. If you offer $6000 and he comes back with $7500, tell him you'll have to think about it and the other cars before you pay anywhere close to that much. Puts the pressure right back on him. "Time is the killer of all deals" is training 101 in the car business. He wants to make a deal right then. Use that to your advantage. Leave him your number and wait for a call.

Wish I could get more of my 11 years experience typed on to this screen to help you out. He who speaks first after your offer is out, loses. And time is on your side, not theirs.

 

This thread is some good reading. Hope it goes on for awhile.

 

Be a man-go by yourself ....Never take another party it will kill your "dealmaking"- completely!!!!
TAKE cash, not ANY checks- its not WALMart.....
Be polite and to the point -[no joking]-

look -look -look- look- then look some more..thats the free part ..Plus it wears em down, they are thinking they need to "do somethin"- to make you a buyer ,by then!

Tell him what your concerns about the car are [without being critical]-Then make the lower, offer you consider to be fair.

THEN -LEAVE........this is important and it almost always works..
If not causing him to shoot you a parting counteroffer -then when you "come by" in a few days- he will know what/how, you are thinking and after having some time to stew on it he may be a tad more flexible on his price .....as the car is STILL THERE.......[RIGHT?]
Next time you are there-.....ask about a couple other cars he has and act interested in them more than the one you want... stay and test drive em even!
Then after you are not "that impressed"....with those two,ask him if the one you want is still available.....having to admit it is STILL THERE......
should oil the wheels of progress in your negotiations a little.... Good Luck!
Remember-Leaving and comin back a couple times is not too much trouble if it saves some cash!

 

Oh they do have feelings, but none of them are benevolent when a deals on the line.

 

I sold a '47 Cadillac Limo a few years back and I was very happy with the way I handled it. I had priced it right, but not outrageous. A fellow called and we talked about the condition of the car, that's all, not price. I won't discuss any price other than the asking price on the phone.

He showed up that night with a crew cab dually and trailer in tow. He looked at the car and I let him. I didn't say a word other than polite introductions and answering questions directly.

After 1/2 hour he made an offer. Will you take $**.00 for it? I told him No. and I shut up. He made four more offers, each one met with a No and silence. After his sixth offer (he was getting close and I was getting ready to fall asleep) I said, "You and I both know the condition of the car and we both know what it's worth." and I shut up.

He sighs, out comes the cash, ***le is signed and exchanged, and away he went with his new Caddy.

I think I'll take this approach next time I sell a car. Shutting up, who'da thunk it.

 

Sorry, but dealer salespeople have pressured me, lied to me, wasted my time (let me go run these numbers by my manager), tried to hold me hostage (I can't seem to find the car we are appraising for trade-in, can we look over those numbers again while we look for it?), and generally tried to screw me over so many times that it is hard for me to think of them as people with feelings. I am not saying that is what you do, but the majority of my experiences at dealerships have been like that. They show no respect, and get none in return. For these reasons, I just don't bother to go to them any more.

Both of my parents were in sales for most of their lives. I know from watching them work that sales people can be honest and respectful and still make a decent living. Most car sales people I have dealt with, though, were neither.

Slonaker

 

I've had good luck with this aprouch ,Talk nice about the car but when it comes to the negative, stuff I will poke fun at it, like if the car smokes when you start it up you my say ( i hope nobody is standing behind me when i start it up that would surely make em gag, or a broken seat back,(boy if a pearson bought this car they should run to a home improvement store first and buy some 2X4's to prop up the seat just to drive it) ,then after the small talk ,ask what he has it avertised for then ask him what his bottom dollar is for it ,it is usually a lower price if you like then buy if not then offer him a counter offer,,, pause for a moment then tell him you would like him to think it over you can leave a phone number he can reach you .In most of my experiances I couldn"t get the car door closed before a deal was setteled, on a used car lot a car is priced a $1000.00 higher to allow for somebody's trade in,tell the sales man you would like to buy the car outright he will drop the price that much if not walk away he is only trying to con you .You can only find that out when you go to another car lot and they can drop the the price like a hot potato just so they can sell it ,also I do not put any good faith money down on any thing, I'll simply tell them I'll think abought the deal and get back with you and if a better deal can be made while Iam away then go for it .

 

In finance, I was very direct when I asked for the sale. A lot of people probably felt like that was pressure. Waste time? nope. Lie? Didn't need to and don't believe in it. I could actually sell my product, so I didn't need to lie. Anyway, I'm used to people expecting me to be a s***bag for being in the business. I worked at Saturn over 3 years ago, and just had somebody come up to me at the Vet this week and remind me that I helped them get there car. The customers know how I treated them, and that's all I care about.

Your dollars are very valuable. It's your own fault for spending them with bad dealers. You encourage the bad behavior by rewarding them with sales.

I got out earlier this summer. Not because I didn't love the business. I didn't love the hours. Now I help people refinance car loans they think they got screwed on. And I'm still very direct and shut up after I ask them to buy an extended warranty!

 

to all the people who had trouble with my "half offer" and "return with a fair priced car", you seem to have missed the part about this deal being on a USED CAR LOT. Different rules apply to private sellers. When I owned my lot, it always amused me that the buyers thought they knew more about how I sold than I did. They dealt with used car lots once a year, maybe every two years. Two cars in two years. Hell, I sold as many as 3 cars in one day. As far as returning to show what you bought, yes, it bothers the salesman/owner. It means someone else got to pick your pocket instead of him.

 

You negotiate everything ,everyday of your life . Wether its bringing a new found car home and dealing with the wife or talking with a co worker over the best way to complete a project . These are all negotiations and basic rules and guidelines apply to all.
Check out this short article from a business development group I belong to.

www.teconline.com/www/bestpractices/negotiating_business.deals.asp

There are basic rules in negotiating: Knowledge is power,The man that controls the time controls the negotiation, Dont negotiate against yourself, Good negotiations result in a win /win for both parties,ect. Negotiation tactics used are dependent on you. Some of us are more aggressive than others and may not be as successful as some of the lo key people and vice-a-versa. It all depends on how you adapt to the other party in the negotiation.

If you ever get a chance to hear Jack Kaine (J W Kaine LTD) talk about negotiations make sure you take advantage of the opportunity. Hes one of the best in the nation.

Larry

 

I think we may be getting a little far of line. We're not going to turn him into a salesman with some advice from the internet! I'm more to blame than anybody for bringing it down this road.

Having said that, I kind of disagree with your take on this. Your advice is based on business negotiations where a relationship needs to exist to create business down the road. In those cases, over agression may get one sell, but will hinder future business. I think it's different when we are talking about a one time transaction.

I agree that there must be the perception of a win-win. The difference is when the seller has seller's remorse, we don't need him to still feel the win-win like you would in a continued relationship deal. That's why I think an agressive approach is appropriate.

I did like the article though. Knowledge is power. The man that controls the time, controls the negotiation. That's a succinct way of saying much of what I was trying to say.