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Projects Shade tree Model A speedster kind of thing

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by rwrj, Nov 21, 2017.

  1. chiro
    Joined: Jun 23, 2008
    Posts: 1,234

    chiro
    Member

    Just curious...what's with the wire wrapped around the spokes? Is that your "Shadetree" attempt at balancing the wheels? Also, you should mount that bent up wheel on the garage wall as a trophy.
    Andy
     
  2. rwrj
    Joined: Jan 30, 2009
    Posts: 727

    rwrj
    Member
    from SW Ga

    I'm dealing with the other guy's insurance on this, since he was at fault. We haven't gotten to the value part of the process yet.
     
    winduptoy and oliver westlund like this.
  3. rwrj
    Joined: Jan 30, 2009
    Posts: 727

    rwrj
    Member
    from SW Ga

    Andy,
    Sorry. We must have posted at about the same time this morning, and I missed yours. Yeah, that's solder wrapped around the spokes for balancing. I made this balancing doohickey because my local tire store couldn't deal with lug indexed wheels. It's just an old brake drum and spindle. That aluminum rod fits the kingpin bushings pretty close. The wheel bearings are degreased and lubricated with WD40. You can see that little magnet and section of all thread balancing the drum. I just clamp the wood part in the vise with the drum eyeballed plumb to the world, throw the wheel and tire on, and start wrapping. I was surprised how much it took, but those are big, old tires. Maybe they didn't worry about balance much back then? I did move the tires around on the rim to try to get the heavy side away from the valve stem, but it didn't make much difference. They did end up balanced, though, and that made a real difference in driveability.

    IMG_20240322_114044532.jpg

    IMG_20240322_114148741.jpg
     
    BigJoeArt, Outback, AmishMike and 4 others like this.
  4. chiro
    Joined: Jun 23, 2008
    Posts: 1,234

    chiro
    Member

    We need updates! How's old shade tree doing?
    Andy
     
    winduptoy and Outback like this.
  5. Grumpy ole A
    Joined: Jun 22, 2023
    Posts: 176

    Grumpy ole A
    Member

    When the accident happened, didn’t you and your car end up on your property? Why did they tow it to a storage lot? As long as it was off the highways right of way and in your yard, it looks like it could have been left there. I am just being nosy.
     
  6. rwrj
    Joined: Jan 30, 2009
    Posts: 727

    rwrj
    Member
    from SW Ga

    Grumpy,
    I ended up on the road. Haha. I remember rolling onto my back as I was sliding, and bumping over those little grooves they press into the edge of the asphalt to warn fools that it's time to look up from the cell phone. Seriously, though, I probably could have insisted that they leave the car, but I didn't think of it at the time. My remaining rear tire was also still on the pavement, so I don't know. Either way, to get to Andy's update request, I settled with the insurance company back in late April. Just in case it helps somebody in the future, I'll recount some of that.
    The biggest hurdle was the value of the car. I went to bring a trailer and searched "Ford Model A Speedster", found a dozen or so that had sold or been bid on in the last few years and sent that to them, along with a link to this thread, and a pretty detailed write-up on the car. I also informed them early on that I wanted the option of keeping what was left of the car. They sent an appraiser out, but he reported back that he wasn't qualified to make a value judgement because it was such an oddball case, so they farmed it out to a private firm. I never had direct contact with them, but they got all of the information I had provided to the insurance company. Ended up agreeing to a figure that was pretty close to the average of the values from the auctions, which I thought was very generous. The deduction from the settlement for me to salvage the remains was reasonable, as well. They also gave me a little extra for being slightly injured, and replaced my eyeglasses. I'm not much for putting my financial details on the internet, but I guess if you were really curious you could use that information to get an idea of the final payout.

    All in all, I am perfectly satisfied. I had somebody tell me I should have called one of those personal injury firms and I could have been set for life, but I just wanted a fair value for my car. No sense in pushing my luck. I'm still amazed and appreciative that I walked away. Insurance-wise, I anticipated a much more difficult process than it ended up being. Honestly, everybody I dealt with was polite and professional. It all took a while, but that was OK.

    As far as the state of poor old Shadetree, it remains on that trailer covered by a tarp. Still kind of breaks my heart every time I drive by it. I am in the daydreaming/fantasizing stage of the rebuild, which may last quite a while. I have a full set of '37 axles with the mechanical brakes and wide five rims. Since I have to replace the Model A diff, anyway, I'm toying with using them along with my frame (which seems remarkably undamaged, knock on wood) and engine. Like I said, still dreaming it all up. I'll be sure to document the work when I get back to it.
     
  7. Outback
    Joined: Mar 4, 2005
    Posts: 2,938

    Outback
    Member
    from NE Vic

    Thanks for the update @rwrj. Glad you are happy with the insurance outcome.

    I look forward to seeing what you come up with.
     
  8. Grumpy ole A
    Joined: Jun 22, 2023
    Posts: 176

    Grumpy ole A
    Member

    Can hardly wait to see your updates with lots of pictures. We just of pictures.
     
  9. 1low52
    Joined: Oct 26, 2007
    Posts: 420

    1low52
    Member

    So happy to here that you are physically and financially good.
    Lucky doesn't even begin to describe your journey.
    Tim
     
    Outback likes this.
  10. rwrj
    Joined: Jan 30, 2009
    Posts: 727

    rwrj
    Member
    from SW Ga

    Well, I've been pretty busy for an old retired dude, but I have finally found the time and enthusiasm to see if I can do something about my speedster. It's just been sitting covered on that trailer since I drug it home, but yesterday I winched it off of there and set it up on jack stands. Cold front came through last night, so I left it covered again.

    IMG_20241210_155513576_HDR.jpg

    The rain was past this morning, so I decided to strip it to a bare chassis. The post-wreck state of it was pretty depressing:

    IMG_20241211_095848063.jpg

    Somehow part of the car that hit me got mixed in with my parts when they towed it. That's it leaning against the back wheel. Anyway, after a couple of hours I had a pile of busted up crap and the semi-intact cowl off of it.

    IMG_20241211_104440766_HDR.jpg

    IMG_20241211_104501597_HDR.jpg

    That's the old roller on the left rear. Flat and bald, but that turned out to be a good thing. That drum is bent (and locked) all up, so I had to skid it off of the trailer.

    So, that's where I am for now. Next step will be to pull the front and rear axles/wishbones off and start looking at grafting some '37 stuff I have lying around on in their place. Using what I have, like always. I think the rear tire getting knocked off acted as kind of a circuit breaker. That and the fact that the car was so light. The bell on that side of the banjo is bent, as is the wishbone, but to the naked eye the frame looks straight still. Knock on wood. I'll check it in more detail, of course. Hope nobody is in a rush, though, I'll be moving at my usual piddling rate, I suspect.
     
  11. riv63
    Joined: Feb 2, 2008
    Posts: 195

    riv63
    Member
    from Texas

    Good to see progress.
     
  12. Mart
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 4,953

    Mart
    Member

    Only just found out about the wreck. Glad you are ok. Good luck with the rebuild.
     
  13. Outback
    Joined: Mar 4, 2005
    Posts: 2,938

    Outback
    Member
    from NE Vic

    Glad to see you back at it @rwrj looking forward to seeing your updates.
     
  14. ne'erdowell
    Joined: Nov 30, 2005
    Posts: 630

    ne'erdowell
    Member

    What a crappy turn of events. First off, I'm glad that you were not seriously hurt because of this. Shadetree was very cool and I appreciated the innovation you used to make or re-purpose parts to fit the character of the car. Hope to see more from you in the future.
     
    Stogy likes this.
  15. rwrj
    Joined: Jan 30, 2009
    Posts: 727

    rwrj
    Member
    from SW Ga

    Thanks to all. I'm still in the daydreaming/planning stages here. The next step was to wheel the '37 front and rear ends around so I could get an idea of height and stance and wheelbase and all. First, though, I had to free up the brakes on both front wheels and one of the rears. The fronts were easy, just back off the adjuster, unscrew those elegant threaded grease caps, remove the cotter pins, castle nuts, and outside bearings, grab the tires and shake the hell out of it. I even heard the shoes pop back on one side. Re-assemble and roll it. The rear was a bit more trouble. I didn't want to get into pulling a rear drum right now (I'll of course have to go through those brakes, if I don't swap to juice) but some judicious knocks around the edge of the drum with a 2lb hammer got it wiggling a tiny bit, and I worked it out from there.
    Anyway, I have been through days of trying different positions and heights to get to something I think I'm happy with. I want it lower and shorter than old Shadetree was, but not "modern" low, if you know what I mean. For now, I'm pretty satisfied with this look:

    1000006227.jpg

    Those front wheels will probably come back a couple of inches. I'm going to switch to the correct 28/29 radiator, so it won't be so tall. That poor old busted up seat is just up there to give me a location from the pedals. I'm afraid it's not really salvageable. Haha.

    This is going to be a lot more involved, chassis-wise, than the original build. I'll have to shorten the torque tube/driveshaft and the frame and step it in the rear. I think just one thickness, like Tardel outlines. I'm planning to keep the Model A crossmember back there and use the Model A spring. Mostly because I like the look better than a straight C channel crossmember, but also because I like the idea of some solid iron poking up a little higher behind me. Recent events have made me a little sensitive about that. Ha.

    1000006229.jpg

    I'll step it forward of the rear end, so I get a little suspension travel. I don't want to get into fabricating a U-shaped section for the axle to run up in. I haven't personally seen anything like that in old pre-war photographs.

    For the front, I'm planning on a kind of suicide perch, keeping the spring in front as-is. I'll have to split the wishbone, though.

    1000006228.jpg

    That's about it for now. I'll leave a couple of perspective shots. Maybe I should start a new thread? I'm torn, because this is still good old Shadetree, just kind of rising from the ashes. Knock on wood.

    1000006225.jpg

    1000006226.jpg
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2024
  16. Keep this thread going, no need for a new one. You can change/alter the title if you wish and everyone who has been following will still get notifications.
     
    brEad, LWEL9226, Outback and 3 others like this.
  17. patsurf
    Joined: Jan 18, 2018
    Posts: 1,499

    patsurf

    since you mention 'rising from ashes'---make sure and use some ash wood trim inside! congrats for starting to saddle the horse -next step is to get on!
     
    Outback likes this.
  18. Holy cow, this is getting good!!!
     
  19. rwrj
    Joined: Jan 30, 2009
    Posts: 727

    rwrj
    Member
    from SW Ga

    Well, not a lot of progress to report. I found an aluminum 28/29 radiator for really cheap on the internet. I think the shorter height will be just right. Not going to worry about a shell yet. Carts and horses. Anyway, I just couldn't resist hopping in and checking the fit. I probably won't end up sitting this low, but I was curious about vision over the radiator, figured I'd check the lowest possible setting. Do you think the timer on my phone caught me making vroom-vroom noises? As my father would say, can a fat baby fart?

    IMG_20241221_102431050_HDR.jpg

    I had already removed the torque tube and driveshaft in that picture so I can eventually shorten them, which let me get the rear wheels about where I think they'll end up. I wasn't the first to remove that stuff. Sometime in the past somebody replaced the pin through the rear splines with a bolt. It wasn't up to the job.

    1000006354.jpg

    Everything else looks ok, though.

    1000006353.jpg

    By the way, the rear end is the expected 3.78 ratio, same as my old Model A unit. I sure loved how she drove with those tall rear tires, though. No way I can replicate that on these 16" wheels. Too bad this rear isn't one of the 3.5whatever ones. Oh well.

    Next job is to split the wishbone in front. My old trusty Marvel #12 hacksaw made (relatively) short work of cutting the center forging loose.

    1000006350.jpg

    1000006352.jpg

    You know, a sharp hacksaw blade pulled tight is a wonderful thing.

    That's all for now. 'Tis the season, after all, and my time is not entirely my own.
     
  20. kustomkat1950
    Joined: Sep 18, 2010
    Posts: 96

    kustomkat1950
    Member
    from Coastal GA

    Awesome thread man. And glad to hear you are okay with the wreck!! Ever need a beer around Midway area, hit me up...
     
  21. rwrj
    Joined: Jan 30, 2009
    Posts: 727

    rwrj
    Member
    from SW Ga

    I'll keep that in mind, Kustom. Had to look up where Midway is. I'd have to go through Waycross to get there. Hahaha.

    I managed to steal a little time from the Santa circuit to conduct a quick experiment on bending bones, which I have never done before (this is either my 2nd build, or still my 1st, depending on how you look at it). I don't have a rosebud tip for my antique Purox torch, so I used my biggest regular one (No. 6) and heated just behind the perch, concentrating more heat on the side that would be compressed by the bending. I don't know if I'm right about this or not, but I've bent some pretty heavy stuff in my time (some of it on purpose haha) and my experience is that it's more likely to tear on the tension (outside) side of the bend if that has the most heat.

    1000006370.jpg

    Then I sat down and braced one foot against the offside bone, grabbed the end of the near one with one hand while keeping the torch on it with the other, leaned back and pulled. Wasn't trying for much at this stage.

    1000006371.jpg

    I'm shooting for a kind of gradual bend, so I moved the torch back about 2" and repeated the process.

    1000006373.jpg

    Same thing, another 2" back.

    1000006375.jpg

    All in all, a successful experiment. I feel pretty confident I can make this approach work. The easier plan would be to just heat and bend the spring perches and keep the bones straight. Bending the bones instead should give me a little better turning radius. My understanding is that on these spring-in-front setups the straight bones (split) compromise that a good deal. Hohoho
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2024
  22. Outback
    Joined: Mar 4, 2005
    Posts: 2,938

    Outback
    Member
    from NE Vic

    Looking good @rwrj I see you are still committed to you thread titles description of your work place, a bit chilly there?
    Merry Christmas to you & all your mob.
     
  23. rwrj
    Joined: Jan 30, 2009
    Posts: 727

    rwrj
    Member
    from SW Ga

    OK. This will be a lot of reading, but you all can always just skip to the pictures. Kind of like old Hefner's magazine, back in the day.
    Ever since the demise of my original speedster, I have been thinking of how it could be improved, while maintaining my philosophy of keeping it cheap and using what I have. I wanted it lower, and I wanted the engine to be farther behind the front axle. Old Shadetree was a little light on the rear end. It was never a problem, but it wasn't ideal, either. Especially on dirt roads. I originally planned to move the engine back, but that involves moving 3 of the 4 crossmembers. I don't have a frame table (surprised?) and, while I know that can be overcome, I wasn't looking forward to doing it. The 1937 front end is what kickstarted my imagination. It's spring won't fit the Model A crossmember, so that was going to have to be addressed, somehow. What if I moved it out to the end of the frame horns, I thought? That puts the front axle about 6 or 7 inches in front of the original crossmember. Moving the wheels forward has the same effect on the balance of the car as moving the motor back. If I shorten the rear of the frame, that helps even more. So, that's what I decided to do.
    The initial mock-up was promising:

    IMG_20241215_113545248_HDR (1).jpg

    You can also see it in the last picture of post 1065. Like I said, promising, but when I got the car as low as I wanted it there wasn't much room between the frame horn and the axle. "Too bad those frame horns don't turn up instead of down" I says to myself. Blam. Another epiphany. I made a paper tracing of the frame horn and played around with it until I liked the angle.

    IMG_20241228_140609718_HDR (1).jpg

    A 3/4" wedge got me where I wanted to be, but I decided to go with two 3/8" ones for a little more curve-like result. I made this doohickey:

    1000006452.jpg

    1000006453.jpg

    Sitting each ear on a nut lets me bisect the curve so the sides of the pie-cuts are roughly the same length.

    Honesty compels me to admit that I used an angle grinder to cut these. I have a partially torn bicep at the moment, a side effect of not admitting that advancing age brings limitations, I guess. Anyway, here's what I ended up with:

    1000006454.jpg

    1000006456.jpg

    Rolled the front end back under.

    1000006457.jpg

    1000006458 (1).jpg


    1000006459 (1).jpg


    1000006460.jpg

    That should be enough clearance, I hope. I have plenty of fine tuning to do to level up those horns and build a perch for the spring, and I have no illusions about that skinny pipe as a permanent front crossmember (Don't worry, I'll either replace it or reinforce it. It is thick-walled, but still...). All in all, though, I'm pretty tickled with how it turned out. I know a lot of guys don't like those spring in front set-ups, but I kind of do. As always, I'm a form follows function kind of person, and I enjoy figuring out how to use what I have on hand. Happy New Year.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2024

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