Technical R10 overdrive kickdown switch...HELP...lol

Ok, in my 49 ford club coupe that has been rewired to 12v negative ground with an 8ba flathead and factory 3 speed with the r10 overdrive, how do I bypass the kickdown? I don't plan on using it. The overdrive has a new 12v solenoid, 12v relay, nos govenor, all from vanpelts. I have chased all the wiring harness, all connections are good, all wires are new from Dennis carpenter, nothing has rubbed through, when the od handle is pulled out, it locks out like it should and operates like a regular 3 speed. When the handle is pushed in, the transmission freewheels as it should, but no click from the relay, and it does not kick Into od. How would I go about bypassing just the kickdown so the overdrive will still work like it should as in kicking in at 28mph and such? Thank you!

 

What makes you think the kickdown switch is the problem?

 

It's the only thing left.

 

Ah, the shotgun approach. Kind of like troubleshooting, only different.

Do you know how to test electrical parts with a test light or ohm meter?

 

No I don't. All I was ever taught growing up is the mechanical side of things. I can build an engine no problem. But wiring a tach scares the shit out of me.

 

The kickdown switch serves two functions- to "lockout" the OD when the switch is engaged by the accelerator, and to momentarily ground the ignition coil circuit to release the torque holding the OD in. Bypassing the kickdown switch may cause the car to not run. Engaging some help with electrical knowledge may be in order, so as Jim says things can be tested.

 

Actually the governor is at least as likely as the kickdown. And an accidental ground in the new wiring install is even more likely. You really must go over the wiring diagram and functional description and look for a component that isn't working as it should. Like, if the kickdown is open on a test and closes when activated it's fine, no need to change. Same with governor, it needs to open and close at the rated speed.

 

Ok. All I know is that one night I parked the car and everything was working fine. I got in it the following day to go for a ride and the od would not kick in. No click from the relay, nothing.

 

In the manual. “III service operations “. Step by step electrical to check component in order. This includes the kickdown (throttle) switch. It’s not complicated. Just be methodical and do it in order. Don’t overlook the notes. Particularly the note in d 22a in the mechanism section. If the cable slipped just a little, the travel might be short.

If the instructions are lacking for your use, ask questions. Theres several members here with better writing skills than me that can walk you through. But basically a test light, a jumper, and hearing the components “click” is all you need.

 

Ok. I did check the cable first and foremost. I have it adjusted so that when the handle is pushed in, there is maybe an 1/8 inch left before the handle is 100% pushed in. This way I can make sure the lever is all the way against the stop. Which indeed it is. I will try the others to the best of my capabilities. I did find a test light as well.

 

my overdrive abruptly stopped working ... was lucky , the governor wire came unplugged

 

You still have all the wiring. While the connections look tight, unless you test them electrically, you don't know if they will actually carry current.

 

An easy test for the wiring from the relay to the governor is to remove the governor wire and ground it with the ignition switch on. If the relay clicks, the wiring from the relay (through the kickdown switch) is good. If the relay doesn't click, then either a wire is broken or there is an open circuit in the switch.

If the relay does click then the governor is faulty or the drive for the governor is bad. Even new parts can be bad.

Do this simple test and let us know the result so we can tell you where to go next.

 

My statement in the second paragraph isn't totally correct. Before condemming the governor you need to test and see if the relay is sending power to the solenoid. Do the test and let us know the results.

 

I really appreciate all of the help and patience you guys are having with me on this. So, going by this diagram, unhook the wire from the govenor that goes to the kickdown switch. Next I assume just touch the end of that wire to say, a piece of frame or such with the key on?

 

The governor is a NOS item from vanpelts.

 

Yes, be sure you have a good ground such as the transmission itself. That's what the governor grounds to.

 

I believe it's good. The trans is nice and clean. I would think it has a good ground as it worked fine and then all of a sudden didn't. I honestly don't know. I wouldn't think a ground could just go bad overnight. I could be wrong though

 

If you’re finding voltage (the light lights up) but you’re not getting the “click”, you might check the voltage. Grounds as well as hot leads can develope resistance that will carry a small load, but have enough voltage drop to fail to actuate a heavier load like the solenoid. That’s where a volt meter comes in handy.

I think it was Crazy Steve who posted this link, but for $15 this is the best test light I’ve ever had. Easier than a VOM for simple work.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07VN5BB31/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

The only thing I can figure out, is that with the key on, the relay is getting power to the fuse. On both sides. And that's where I'm stuck.

 

Without a kickdown, OD is useless.
Wire it like a '56 up Ford, & mount the KD under the dash so you don't have to floor the gas to use it.

 

^^^^ That indicates the fuse is good. Following the posted diagram, the relay is "pulled in" by going through the kick down switch and then the governor contact to ground. As stated, disconnect the wire going to the governor and ground it. You should hear the relay "click" when you turn on the ignition. If not, the relay could be bad.

On the mechanical side, there is a cam inside the transmission that actuates a rod when you put it in reverse that holds the OD out.

 

Even if it's a brand new relay it could be bad? The mechanical side of things works as it should.

 

Well then my od is useless then as the car has an electronic ignition conversion and if I try and kick it down, it frys the module. I don't plan on any highway driving, or if I do any highway driving it's 100% local to where a kickdown is not needed at all. Which I am perfectly fine with as most driving is done in town. When it did work, I just kept the car in 2nd gear around town and let the od do it's thing. I'd like to get it back to that point. Shouldn't be that hard really.

 

Put a distributor in it that's compatible w/ the OD. Personally, I'd much rather have a working overdrive than a chinese thingy in my dizzy ....

 

New relays, like anything else can be bad. Easiest way to test it is to put a jumper on the lug going to the kickdown switch and ground it. The relay should click. If the relay is wired correctly, the power to the ignition will be cut off momentarily when the relay is pulled in. In this case, I like points.

 

I am not putting points back in the car. So that's the end of that discussion. All I'm trying to do is get the overdrive to function. I don't care if the kick down works or not as I never use it as I don't believe a kick down is useful in town. I just want to get the car back to the way it was before the overdrive decided it did not want to start kicking in that's it. To those that have been helpful I greatly appreciate it. You have been able to shed a ton of information towards me that I have never even knew about. This is how my dad had the car set up when he was alive and I would like to keep it that way and it worked fine for him when he drove it. My deep apologies for kind of going off on a bit of a tangent.

 

Right now all that’s important is that the kickdown switch contacts are in the correct position to carry current under normal operation. Whether you elect to use it is up to you. You don’t need to trouble shoot it at this point if they are. It they’re not you can bypass them at the switch.

Go thru the steps in the manual, in order. Those engineers that wrote that knew what they were doing. This is it. Right there. Follow the procedure, and quit shooting randomly in the dark, or firing the parts cannon hopefully you’ll hit something.

Did you fry the module somewhere along the line? Or did it warn you not to use it with an overdrive? Some electronics will fry, some won’t. Once everything is working, you can add a relay and have the kick down operation without frying a unit.

 

You hit the nail right on the head. My main concern is getting the overdrive working first and foremost. I have a diagram to put a relay in line so when I do use the kick down if I ever decide to it will not fry the ignition module and everything will work as it should.

 

One thing I learned in my near 40 years of working in the electrical trade is when troubleshooting, don't assume anything. Check it all...

Yep, with the key on that should operate the relay and while you're under the car, unplug the blue wire to the solenoid. When the relay operates, 12V should appear on the blue wire. If it does, you've just 'proved' most of the wiring. With the governor wire still grounded, plug the blue wire back together, you should hear/feel the solenoid operate. Do this test with the overdrive cable pulled out (OD locked out) to avoid damaging the OD shift pawl. If it all tests out as above, the issue is in the governor.

It needs to be remembered that the governor gets its ground through the transmission case. It screws into the tailshaft using a pipe thread, and any thread sealant or paint can interfere with that ground (especially teflon tape). I'd pull it out, clean the threads to bare metal and reinstall minus any sealer, with just a bit of oil for thread lube or better still, some anti-seize. While you have it out, it wouldn't hurt to pull the top cover off and make sure the internal weights are free to move and there's no broken connections.

We tend to make stuff 'pretty' with paint or powdercoat but that can interfere with ground paths. That's one reason why the factories tended to be skimpy on paint on a lot of the bits.