Hot Rods Traditional wire ties

I am in the process of building an early 60’s style roadster pickup. I was very much impressed with Mark Skippers roadster pickup….beautiful. Kind of heading that way.
While getting my headlights and running lights installed, I asked myself a question about using wire ties. Are nylon wire ties ok to use on a traditional style build? ..What was actually used ? I have seen some wonderful electrical systems with wax cord wire ties. I don’t have the patience to do that kind of detail.
So what say you ?
Are they ok ?
Is there something better I haven’t thought of ?

 

In the dozens of threads about this it seems if you don’t want zip ties or wax cord a lot of
Guys use friction tape to bundle wires if
You want them exposed or you can cover the whole think with asphalt impregnated cotton looming and then put black shrink wrap over the ends and over any exits mid length.

that seems to be the most commonly used options I see.

 

I saw a bunch of the looming threads. In the 19 pages of search returns, I did not see anything about wire ties and them being traditional. I had wire ties all over my old coupe and never thought once about them not being traditional. Since I am about to do the rest of the harness, I just had to ask the question.

 

Black friction tape around the wires and with metal clips with a bolt/screw hole to to anchor them to the body or motor is what I recall seeing the the most. There was also that woven black or brown woven fabric tubing instead of fraction tape.

 

Stay away from the friction tape, that stuff is messy and if you ever need to get into the harness you'll have to cut it off and it'll leave a sticky mess behind unless you use my trick below... Use the woven fabric instead. The friction tape you buy today isn't quite the same stuff used 'back in the day'.

If you feel the need for tape, spend the money and use Scotch 33+ or Plymouth Premium brands. Get the tape up to body temp and stretch it slightly when wrapping until the last wrap, let it 'relax' for that one, that way the end won't peel up. If you want the tape easily removable, use this trick: do two half wraps, on the first one anchor one end then 'flip' the tape so the adhesive faces out. Don't stretch it tight. Once wrapped to the end, flip the tape back with the adhesive in, then finish wrapping. When you split the tape, it'll peel right off and won't leave a gooey mess behind. If you want to save some $$, you can use 'bargain' tape for the first wrap. Don't use it for the final wrap, the glue on that stuff is inferior and will dry out or melt and start to unravel. If you just have to have friction tape, use plastic tape for the first wrap (adhesive out) then use the friction tape over it. If you ever have to remove the tape, you'll thank me...

 

John Bull rubber cable ties as used on old British bikes. KTM still use something similar too

 

https://restorationstuff.com/

Page 12 of their catalogue....aluminum wire ties also friction tape and linen cord

 

It's a no from me on "nylon wire ties". I use some for small animal control fencing outdoors and the ties degrade into brittle uselessness in less than 10 years. That's exposed to harsh Texas sun so YRMV.
I can psych myself that some things look okay but I can't quite do that with nylon wire ties........ and split loom...... *gag a magot*.
The shop that helped me with some wire loom work used some braided black plastic (PET?) with black ferrules/cuffs that don't look too bad. At least it doesn't fire off my ugly detector system.

 

I remember friction tape in common use

 

If not the asphalt impregnated cloth loom tube I'd say friction tape. Some of the posts above seemed like all though they were talking about friction tape might have actually been referring to good quality electrical tape like Scotch 33. Friction tape is I define it is more of a cloth product that probably doesn't have as much stickiness as electrical tape. For what it's worth I bought the asphalt coated cloth tube loom from NAPA, and have done a couple cars with it. Using that cloth tube product does require some planning and thought to get everything into looms with smaller bundles meeting up and blending into larger bundles at appropriate places.

Lynn

 

Nope, I meant friction tape not electrical tape. Electrical tape was used a little back in the day but not much but it has replaced friction tape now days.

 

You probably know this; these metal ties are also used on a lot of the older Triumphs and Limey bikes...cut to length, and can be reused a few times. My go to.

 

That's how it used to be before being mostly replaced with plastic tape. The new stuff is much stickier...

 

Bet Restoration Supply has a variety to look at.

 

McMaster Carr has dozens of different styles of wire ties.

 

The guy I buy most of my electrical supplies seels a cloth tape that is similar to what the factories used. Different from friction tape. There are also some split loom products that look old timey once installed. The asphalt loom from napa fades out after a while. I still use it though on some applications though.

 

probably the best price on asphaltic coated wire loom
and a wonderful selection of all kinds of wire and connectors
https://brillman.com/shop/

 

I don't know how easy it would be to get in the US but on older French cars this was used everywhere:
https://www.ligarex.fr/fr/ligaband/...JX*MTcyMTUxMjY5OC4xLjAuMTcyMTUxMjY5OC4wLjAuMA..
or
https://www.sam-outillage.fr/outil-coffret-pince-ligarex-5063.htm
It's a stainless steel band, you can buy rolls of it with the clamp parts some in steel some in stainless steel, it depends on the manufacturer in bags of hundreds, or buy them ready to use.

 

I'm sure it took some serious planning; but I saw a car with short sections of shrink tube spaced evenly over the harness with an extra piece where a wire or wires split off. Looked good with the cloth braid wire. The harness was screwed down with dark metal clamps placed over a longer section of shrink tube.

 

I've had good luck with Hockey stick tape
https://www.amazon.com/Renfrew-Clot...ff469faf8e4e30e0a95167029895049b&gad_source=1

 

Cable lacing, with waxed lacing tape, isn’t hard to do, and doesn’t take long once you get going. I did my entire harness with it.

 

I did mine with a braided split loom. It looks old, but is easy to work with. I used black zip ties where I needed them, with the "head" pointed down or hidden by the fender or firewall. Been on there close to 10 years with no problems, but they are under the hood, not out in the sunshine all the time...

 

Just a little point of interest here..... I think zip ties came out in the late '50's. I remember seeing a '32 Olds with a V-8 in it and the plug wires were all zip tied across the firewall. As a kid, I was trying to imagine how much money he spent on those new fangled things. Must have cost a lot.

 

Our early 50’s power plans had primitive zip ties that had notches and stops and clicked together. They were a white nylon and were very brittle by the mid to late 60’s.
Black “Manson” friction tape was used and I used it in car wiring. It was the best tape for wrapping the handle of wood or aluminum baseball bats I ever found and I used it until I quit playing in 2012. It was great to grip. I like Adell screw clamps and still do on my race cars to guide wire looms. Used extensively in the airplane world of WWII.

 

1964 Ford

OK.....
Above shows an almost untouched wiring loom under the hood of a 1964 Fairlane.
I’m not sure if any this is reproduced.
Anyway you can see how the factory hung the loom in the early 60s.
It may be possible to mimic this with various wire ties ; small and large, cut heated and shaped.

Earlier cars tended to have metal clips. You can make clips out of sheet metal.
One method is to use a drill and a vise. You bend the metal around a drill and squeeze it shut with the vise around the drill. Basically you make a tube with flat flanges.
Then you can shape it to whatever profile you want.

The tape on the factory loom is a type of vinyl tape with no adhesive. This was wrapped around the harness. It’s not electrical tape.
This stuff is still available. It’s just a wrap.
Electrical tape is different and it tends to harden, this stuff does not.

 

I can't be quiet any longer!! We used [use?] bailing wire on hot rods!!
You guys get hung up on looks. That is for street [ customs] rods, not hot rods!
That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Ben

 

I read in somebodies traditional build thread…..”Not one plastic zip-tie was sacrificed in this build”………Mark

 

I am going to do this on my ‘36. I always liked WWII aircraft. I went aboard and snapped this pic. I am going to use cloth covered wire with brown wax twine without the zip ties and clamps

 

Friction tape is ugly stuff! It will turn your fingers black from the residue in the tape, and it will turn brown as dust sticks to it over time. Spend the money to buy real black cloth tape that's only sticky on one side, unlike friction tape.
I bought a 4 pack of black cloth tape in 1" widths and wrapped any of my wiring that was visible with it. It's not that expensive, and if you ever need to open the loom you can slit it, and easily remove what you need. Then just wrap new tape over the area and it looks perfect again.

 

DAMN !!!!
First, thanks for all the links. They are very beneficial. Also, turns out DuPont invented the wire tie called a Ty-rap in 1937 so they are traditional…..Who Knew ? The ones we use today were made available in 1968.
I appreciate all the info. So I guess I go buy some more wire ties