Hey y'all, So I'm finally back to tearing into the 32 3W I have and am running into a problem identifying the motor it came with. I've looked all over this thing trying to find any identifying numbers. From what I've read Ford has them upside down on the block above the starter. I don't see anything there however. Any help identifying the motor or telling me where to look would be much appreciated. Found this: The quickest way of differentiating between the different familys of Ford engines is to simply count the valve cover bolts. 2 bolts: 239/256/272/292/312 (produced from 1954 to 1964) 5 bolts: 332/352/360/361/390/391/406/410/427/428 (FE engine) 6 bolts: 221/260/289/302/351W 7 bolts: 429/460 8 bolts: 351C/351M/400 The valve covers have 6 bolts so it's either a 221/260/289/302/351W
The exhaust manifold has date code numbers on it. Looks like 2A31. 2= 1972 A= January 31= 31st day. Pull a rocker cover off, there should be casting numbers and date codes that easy to see and read. Could be something like D2OExxxx
Good eye, I didn't see that at all. I looked closer and it says 2A3. There's another longer number underneath but it's illegible. I was going to pull the valve covers next to see what's going on. I really don't think it's a 351w based on the height of the intake vs the bottom of the distributor but then it's an Offy intake so who knows. I'm guessing 289/302.
Looks like Fairlane exhaust manifolds. Motor mounts are 65 and older, as the water pump is aluminum, again making it 65 and older. If it got 6 bell housing bolts I would say 289, if 5 bell housing bolts 260, or early 289.
The numbers above the starter are hard to see with every thing in place. This is mine with the starter removed. 1985.
Looks like I'm going to be pulling the starter and exhaust manifold over there. Thanks for the pic that helps a lot.
I'll take a look at the bell housing. It's not the forever engine as I have a Caddy 390 waiting to eventually go in it, I just want to know enough to change the fluids etc.
Should not have to remove the exhaust manifold to pull the starter. You should be able to look around the starter sorta to get the block casting number. On your engine the number should be parallel to the starter making it easier to see. I would do what RmK57 said and pull a valve cover and get a head casting number there.
Here's a couple write ups on how to decipher Ford casting/part numbers. The photo above is 1985 Galaxie engine E5AE. The little tag that looks screwed on is the date it was cast 5 =1985 B = February 4 = day. The C3B refers to what changes have been made since the part was originally made and which of those changes are in this pattern. 17 is the number of this pattern. https://www.fordification.com/tech/partnumbers_overview.htm https://classicmustang.com/decoding-part-numbers/
FYI, don't get hung up on the casting number being "what it's from". Castings were used for multiple years across model lines, the casting revision has little to do with what it was installed in. They just help identify the decade for the date code.
For typical replacement parts, the SBF all use the same oil filter (Ford FL1A, NAPA 1515, Wix 51515, Fram PH8A although there is a 'shorty' filter but I forget it's number), thermostat size, timing chain sets and tune-up parts (points ignition). There's two V-belt style timing covers; the '62-65 type with right-side inlet and a factory aluminum pump, and the '66-up version that uses a cast-iron pump. But there are aluminum aftermarket pumps for these also, so that may not indicate the earlier type. If there's a steel plate sandwiched between the pump and the cover, it's the later style. The pumps/covers have to be used as a 'set', and the timing pointers were moved around. In '70 they switched to left side inlets on most applications, as well as switching from a 3-bolt to 4-bolt lower pulley. If you have the early cover, if you replace the pump check for corrosion in the pump impellor area on the cover. These were known to corrode which can dump coolant into the oil pan, why Ford changed the design in '66. Both types of covers are available new as repos, although the early one is quite a bit more expensive. It's easy to determine the 5-bolt vs 6-bolt block; simply check the bellhousing bolt size. The 5 bolt uses a 3/8" w 9/16" head bolt, the 6-bolt jumped that up to a 7/16" w 5/8" head. All 221/260s were 5-bolt, the '63-64 289 was 5-bolt, all others were 6-bolt. All 221-302 blocks use the same pan rail design so oil pans will interchange. The 351 motors are different pans. There's three basic cylinder head designs. '62 to early-mid 66 used 'conventional' rockers, identified by machined slots for the pushrods. Ford then switched to 'rail' rockers, with large 'loose' holes for the pushrods and 'rails' at the valve end of the rocker to keep it centered on the valve stem. In '77 Ford switched again, this time to non-adjustable stamped steel pedestal/'sled' rockers. The first gen rockers were adjustable, and some of the second gens. There are a bunch of different castings with various chamber/port sizes, you'll need casting numbers to pin those down. Spark plugs are 18mm, Autolite 45 or Motorcraft BF42 to name a few. Some much later heads use 14mm 'peanut' plugs, but that's not what you have.
A lot of good info in there. Ok so it’s a 6 bolt bell housing with 5/8” bolt heads. The filter on it is a Wix 51068 and the spark plug wires are 7mm. None of my spark plug sockets were large enough to get the spark plugs off. I did take the left valve cover off and got this photo.
That’s next though based on the heads looks like it’s a 65 289. I wish I could talk to the previous owner but he died and his sister didn’t know anything about the car.
Best know the exact day and hour on any Ford part.. They were known to change a lot and not interchange..
The 4J8 is a date code. Year=1964 Month= September Day= 8th day I’d keep the little 289 in it if it were mine. Re-dress it period correct for 1964 and enjoy it.
Yes, looks to be a 1965 289. On the drivers side of the block, just in front of the head is a small pad, it will have numbers and letters on it. That will be the date the engine was assembled. It would decode similar to RmK57's break down.
Those sought after heads were put on a later block since it is a 6-bolt bell housing. Not unusual as those heads had smaller combustion chambers.
I thought the change from 5 to 6 bolt sbf blocks was around July of 1964. I had an early production '65 Falcon with a 4 spd. and it had the 6 bolt bellhousing.
It might have been that early. Ford was infamous for 'using up' existing stocks before switching to upgraded/changed parts but that was not the case here, or at least totally. Here, Ford decided they wanted a clean break and all '65 Models would get the 6-bolt block along with the new wide pattern manual transmissions. They then proceeded to dispose of all remaining stocks of 5-bolt 289 motors, donating complete motors to voc-tech and high school auto shop programs until they were gone. For some reason they kept using the 5-bolt 260, but just until stocks were exhausted early in '65. This also led Ford to cast a limited number of dual-pattern 6-bolt manual bells that would accept both transmission patterns to cover any warrantee motor replacements, so they didn't need to replace the trans as well. One other change was made that a lot of people miss. The '62-64 motors had 3/8" threaded accessory holes in the ends of the heads, these were enlarged in '65 to 7/16" to allow fitting the new-for-65 alternator. One bit of trivia... While the 260 was gone at Ford in early '65, it soldiered on until '67 in the Sunbeam Tiger. Rootes had stocked up on them, purchasing 6450 while they were still available. They ran out mid-year '67, leading the final 633 cars to be fitted with the 289. But Chrysler now owned Rootes and was unhappy with selling a Ford-powered car. Chrysler's small block wouldn't fit, so the car was unceremoniously dropped.
""One other change was made that a lot of people miss. The '62-64 motors had 3/8" threaded accessory holes in the ends of the heads, these were enlarged in '65 to 7/16" to allow fitting the new-for-65 alternator"" Only one of the 3 holes, at least on my 67 heads.
Interesting... Personally, I've never ran into set that didn't have the 7/16" holes until I converted my '64 Comet to an alternator and had to re-drill/tap one hole to mount it.
First 75 Cobras and 260 c.i.d. engines, the myth that will not go away. CSX2018 (18th production Cobra) received a High Performance 289 (HP289) engine as its original in time to have the full engine description and Ford serial number included on the Manufacturer’s Statement of Origin and invoice both dated January 18, 1963. The contracts signed in August 1962 specified that special performance engines (XHP-260 and HP260 engineering specials) were to be used until the new HP289 was available. From CSX2018 onward is seems at this time which engine which car received depended on who completed the car and when: Shelby’s works, A.C. Cars, Continental Cars, or Holman-Moody. Examples: CSX2044 received HP289 engine number 524 and CSX2075 received HP289 engine number 568 which was listed on that car's invoice. One notice to dealer service departments suggests all cars CSX2070 and higher by chassis number received a HP289 engine and electrical charging system. Shelby American had sufficient early prototype and early production HP289 engines in time to modify them for racing before March 1963. A published report on some March 2-3, 1963 races has CSX2002 and CSX2026 racing the first time with 289 c.i.d. engines that weekend. Full standard production of the HP289 engines did not start until March 1, 1963 but prototypes had been in testing by Ford since September-October 1962. It appears that least two each 1962 made prototype HP289 engines by serial number found their ways in to new racing Cobras. (Some parts from prototype HP289 engines dated in 1962 have been sold through eBay® offerings, ignition distributors in particular.) Side Bar: There has been very little market interest in Ford parts specific to XHP-260 and HP260 engines. I had a few I had collected over decades of time, and it took three years to find new homes for them after I gave up the idea of collecting enough parts to complete one engine. I sold most of them for less than they cost me. They went to owners of Cobras, Cobras that still had their original 260 c.i.d. engines. The same has been pretty much true for HP289 specific engine parts dated before early February 1963. The potential market, if there is such a situation, for any HP289 specific parts dated before June 1963 is pretty small. Even though several different manufacturers or custom car builders purchased new 1963½ HP289 engines, the main groups that might be interested are 1963 Fairlane and a relatively small number of Cobra owners with cars that originally had 1963½ HP289 engines. There was something on the order of 1550± “1963” production engines shipped out and most went into 1963½ Fairlanes. There were not a lot of “1963” engines installed in Cobras because well, not that many new Cobras were completed before the “1964” engines became available in August 1964. Most Cobras received some version of “1964” engine. On August 23, 1962 an internal document, “Ford Motor Company Executive Communication … Subject : Shelby Cobra Program” distributed by L.A. Iacocca tells us how many Experimental High Performance 260 and how many High Performance 260 engines would be available for new Cobras until the new High Performance 289 engines were foreseen to be available. 15 each “special order…hand built” 260 c.i.d. engines (the XHP-260 version) 185 each “semi-production…units” 260 c.i.d. engines (the HP260 version) Note: Not all of these engines went to and or were used by Shelby American as other companies received some for racing or new car development here and in Europe. Shelby American did sell some brand HP260 engines to customers. All Cobras completed 1962-1965 with manual transmission received five bolt engines of some type, size, and state of tune. 15 each new 1965 Cobras received six bolt 1965 Fairlane HP289 automatic transmission specific engines and 1965 Fairlane High Performance C4 (HPC4) automatic transmissions for column shift applications. There was also a 1965 model of Fairlane floor shift HPC4 version of transmission assembly. (Mustangs did not get the HPC4 transmission option until the 1966 model year.) The unknowns are what did CSX2435 receive. CSX2435 was the Cobra prototype car for automatic transmission and air conditioning. No records have surfaced describing exactly what engine and transmission it received. At the time it was completed there were 1964 Fairlane end of the model five bolt automatic transmission HP289s, 1964 versions of HPC4 transmissions, and preproduction 1965 versions of everything.
High Performance 289 engine wise, the last regular production five bolt engines known so far were made (engine assembly date) July 11, 1964. The engine identification tags read, 289 64 1, 4-G 544-B where 544-B is the quick reference Order Code for the specific engine assembly. Ford made some changes to five bolt HP289 engines in May 1964 getting ready for the planned introduction of five bolt HP289 engines in cars with generator based charging systems June 8, 1964. Several 1965 Mustangs with “scheduled” build dates of June 8 have surfaced but none were actually assembled that day it seems. Rumors indicated June 12 was the first day a 1965 Mustang received a 1964 HP289 engine. The big change was the introduction of C4OF-AL carburetors for manual transmission cars and C4OF-AT carburetors for automatic transmission 1964 Fairlanes, the automatic transmission specific engine being a big new addition to the engine line. I am interested in those 4-G 544-B engines because a group of them went into new Cobras. The highest Ford engine number known so far was in a new Cobra installation. Cylinder heads are to me still an open question as there were assemblies in use at the same time based on C4OE-B castings from March 1964 and C5OE-A castings made subsequently. Bob Mannel and I have documented assemblies based on both castings with 3/8” accessory bolt holes; used for an A.C. Cars alternator bracket in Cobras and with generator equipped Fords. We find C4OE-B castings in Cobras and others find C4OE-B or C5OE-A castings in Fords. Dick Roush purchased an engine core decades ago he says had one C4OE-B casting and one C5OE-A casting. It would not have mattered combustion chamber wise as both castings used the same size and shape chambers. Anyway, I have seen Mustang owners post various 289 engine versions with July 1964 engine assembly dates for six bolt engines just days after the last regular date we know for five bolt HP289 engine assemblies. (Vehicle scheduled assembly date means little as they were often just a date planned not date done. Engine assembly dates mean a lot for engine component applications and dates.) Then there were the new HP89 engines made just for Shelby American at the end of August 1964 intended for new Cobras. They were a “five bolt” bell housing version made a month into 1965 “six bolt” production and no Ford dealer would have understood them completely. This group of 48 each engines was comprised of 1964 model year specific parts as used in July 1964 and 1965 model year specific parts that started to be used subsequently. So far, all engines studied had C4OE-B cylinder head castings and 3/8” accessory bolt holes. The engine identification tags call out a 1964 engine made during the 1965 model year. 42 of the engines went into new Cobras and a 43rd was used to fulfill a Cobra warrantee claim. The best I can tell a 44th was built into a 4V induction COBRA race engine and installed in prototype 1965 MUSTANG GT350 SFM5R002 in 1964 as its first racing engine. I never found mention of the other four engines.
The Jalopy Journal
