Event Coverage Are 4 Doors the new thing?

I didn't get my license till summer 1999. Even then, we knew 2 door cars were cooler than 4 doors, but in my opinion it was kinda the beginnings of old 4 door cars being accepted as cool. No matter the number of doors, an old car is way cooler than a lot of the newer stuff that kids that grew up in the fast and furious era lusted after.

 

I make anything I drive look F ing cool , it's a gift

 

Back to the 50's show in Minnesota get 11-12,000 registrants every year and a 4 door is is a affordable entry into the hobby. The younger crowd just want to get into the action and their non jaded enthusiasm is great to see. They cruise the streets and are having a blast. They couldn't care less if the car is looked down on. There is pride of ownership and being part of the old car community. Get the new blood in the hobby. A certain percentage of the older set also opt for the 4 doors for reasons mentioned above

 

The price difference between 2D and 4D cars has become extreem in some cases. Lots of folks just can't afford the car they wanted so got the car they could afford. The upside is it has made 4D cars much more desirable and popular

 

I try not to be racist, sexist............ or doorist.

 

My friend Lee used to say:" Four doors no waiting...". I personally like the look of a '51 Hudson four door better than I do the two door.

 

I have always loved 4-doors and they were always a bargain, nobody wanted one. They made great sleepers too. My latest one is a very late '64 Belair that I just had to have.

 

I'm old enough to remember when even a 2 door Sedan would be passed over for a Coupe or Roadster never mind a 4 door! That's all changed for the better. I remember when trucks and Station wagons were strictly utilitarian, not meant to be Hot Rods for sure. Once again, that has all changed for the better. Now, I've seen some extremely nice 4 doors that I would be proud to own and drive anywhere. Perceptions change with time and availability of cars. The important thing to take away from all this is that enough people are taking interest in all of these older cars to build them and preserve them in some way, be it hot rodded, customized or just as a driver.

 

Nearing 69 now, I'm not going to change my views on 4 doors.
I only seek out/consider 2 door cars for myself.
Sure, I can appreciate any clean well cared for old car.
Here's an example of a 4 door I can get behind....love those Tubs.
Picture stolen from the Tubs thread.

 

Put it this way: all else equal, given the opportunity to design a body from scratch for a car intended to be my own, there is a near 100% chance it'd be a 2-door.

In my life I've had the opportunity to experience many different automotive cultures in different parts of the world. Most tend to associate a performance orientation with a 2-door body. I think that's about two things: first, a 2-door implies a personal car, one that isn't shared; and given that performance cars, like hot rods and customs, are intrinsically about your own identity to at least some extent, it makes sense. Second, an extra set of hinges, latches, window regulators, etc. adds weight — the implications of which feeds into the first factor.

It also has to do with body tooling costs versus production volumes. Huge volumes justify a greater range of body styles, but increases in tooling costs have been pursued by the industry overall for reasons I don't want to get into, with the result that greater overall production volumes no longer justify a variety of body styles. Hence, 4-doors have become the norm for new cars, in an industry which has become more supply-driven than it's ever been.

The South African situation is possibly a weird outlier. Very small production volumes combined with a general discouragement of creativity under the past local-content programme, and the simultaneous dominance of a blunt, almost perversely practical "farmer's culture" has led to a very simple, linear car model range conception, which has only up-spec and down-spec. Almost everywhere else in the world, performance variants represented a sort of sideways-spec, in which everything serving going fast is up-specced and most other things down-specced to that end. Extreme cases are the American limited-production lightweight models, like those SD421 Pontiacs, but it was pretty much world-wide. Thus, for instance, the VW Golf Mk1 GTi was based on the 2-door shell. Only over here did only the entry-level Golf 1100L have the 2-door shell. When at last we got the GTi, it was built on the 4-door shell because otherwise, "it's supposed to be the top of the range and you only get two doors with it".

I don't want to go into the long South African tradition of not only getting the wrong end of the stick but sinking our teeth into it and stubbornly refusing to let go — in automotive matters and otherwise. Nevertheless, surviving 1100Ls are much sought after for high-performance Mk1 builds, but we're talking about a different and arguably more internationally aware demographic.

And "couping" has been a thing in the UK since the '70s at least.

And then, there are special 4-doors, which are something different from the typical fleet/police/taxi/rental 4-door. Someone mentioned Buick 4-door hardtops above, and I suspect a lot of if not most 4-door hardtops qualify. There are things like the Rover P5 4-door coupés of the '60s/'70s, which unexpectedly work for me. And I've had a soft spot for those weird 5th-generation 4-door Thunderbirds since childhood, because I like the weird stuff. It's just a pity those 'Birds are so boringly conventional underneath.

 

I have an anecdote about this as well. My high school car was a 57 Bel Air 4 door sedan. 283 2bbl with a Turboglide, and about the most obnoxious set of duals on it. I thought this car was hot stuff, and it kinda was in the high school parking lot in 2001. One day I popped by Park Auto in Elizabeth, NJ to drop some parts off for some friends and Manny Bastio, Bob Nitti (who restored The Aztec) and a couple other guys were there hanging out. I was 17 years old and telling Nitti all my plans for the Chevy, and he looks me dead in the face and goes, "Why are you building your parts car? It's a 4 door. Forget it and go get a coupe." Totally shriveled me, but the point was taken; 4 doors aren't cool.

Generally speaking, with some exceptions, I think the hierarchy of body styles are (from best to worst)
-Convertible
-2 door hardtop
-2 door sedan
-4 door hardtop
-2 door wagon
-4 door sedan
-4 door wagon

Obviously there are exceptions within that hierarchy, and some people like myself don't like convertibles. Some folks also like wagons, so there could be an argument to move those up too.

But I think this general rule holds true, that any car that looks great as a 4 door would look better as a 2 door. Sorry. That's a fact.

Why are 4 doors more prevalent now? It's a good question. I don't think younger people have the connotation to lameness with a 4 door like was beaten into our heads by the older generation. 4 doors are obviously less expensive and give people more bang for their buck in purchasing.

It also could be less impactful on the style of builds that are more common now. The arguments for the coupe, especially the hardtop, is that the roofline is lower and flows better. It gives a sleeker, sportier appearance, which is the desired result in building a custom. But now the style of build is usually centered more about just lowering a stock car, putting on a set of wheels, and calling it a day. Having a higher sedan roofline is less of an issue when you're leaving all of the trim and emblems on.

 

when I showed my wife a photo of my 36 phaeton when I was thinking about getting it she said why would you want that its a parts car. what I am seeing now is guys building older big trucks .cheaper than 1/2 ton short beds but to me they never will be cool.guess I have seen to many hauling corn

 

price is decent and as a hard top with the windows down who cares !

57 Chevy 4 door hard top simply has sweet lines with the more pancaked roof profile




For sale locally to me ok price and well sorted out , about 15-20 less then a 2 door



My car is pretty snazzy and the suicide doors always draw questions and smiles




This thing is just fancy




Another tri five at a decent price with 4 doors . Albeit inline 6 three speed but a decent start .

All my old cars have been 4 doors for the most part , what I can afford and I really don’t care . I’m cruising having fun and to me it’s really all that matters .

 

I bought this car just for the engine but I've been thinking about building it for my daughter, she loves it. If you're going to have a 4-door I think a 4-door hardtop is hard to beat.

Larry

 

I don't think it's a trend. But they are cheaper, which is appealing to a lot of people. And as a guy who has cut up a lot of 4 doors as conversions, there are at least some body styles that look really good as the 4 door. Others may not be considered as pretty, but they're odd or rarely seen, and some people value that, too.

I would push back on the idea that they're accepted by the younger crowd because most/all new cars are 4 doors. Most new vehicles are trucks and SUV/crossover things. The only "car" you can buy new from Ford right now is a Mustang. The only Chrysler branded anything currently made is the Pacifica minivan. Chevrolet's only remaining sedan is the Malibu, and it's out of production at the end of this year. American "cars" in general are pretty much completely phased out.

 

Just to be that guy, I recently got a no door!
I agree that any stigma is lessened, and cost is a huge incentive.
We can't all afford 32 3 windows, 34 roadsters and 40 coupes.

There is the mentality of going a different path too.
If you did find a 40 cheap and took it to a local gathering, it would be compared to the perfect paint 'n polished 75k rod. Suddenly, you have a high standard that once again prices you out. Better to roll in with a Stude or Nash 4 door and not be compared to anyone else. Jaded people that have seen every feature and line of a 40 and are judgemental suddenly are looking over your car, asking about little details and are interested and engaged.

 

If you are going to drive around in a four (4) door, you might as well put a few car seats (for the kids) hook up in the back.

 

'49-'51 merc 4-doors i like...

 

Pretty sure there has been a long thread about this a few years ago. Some hate anything with four doors. If you have a family a more door can be a benefit hard to fit more than two into a coupe or roadster. Built several four doors and just bought another to accommodate the grandkids.

 

There's always been a hierarchy in body styles. Convertible> coupe> sedan> wagon> 4 door. I talked to a guy at Carlisle trying to sell his 4 door 56 Chevy. He was asking 2 door prices. I asked him why he spent so much restoring a 4 door, when the same money could be spent on a 2 door. He just shrugged his shoulders, and said, Yeah, I guess so!

 

In 2017 when I first signed up around here, I had to learn the lingo 'cause people here talked funny. When I read about a "post car" or a "no post car", I thought, 'What the hell are they talking about? Those are hardtops and sedans! Everybody knows that!' And then I started seeing pictures of way too many with 4-doors. And I thought, 'How can this place be about hot rods and customs if they have 4-doors??! What's wrong with these people?'
You see, I was "Class of '61". 1961 was smack dab in the middle of the hardtop, no-post school of style. You were either "with it" in a hardtop...... or you were something lesser and beneath the hardtops. There was no sliding scale. It was either the few in the penthouse or the great unwashed masses in the basement.
I'll use olives as an analogy to answer the opening question. The first squeeze of the olives produces the highest-quality oil. There's still some oil in the olive mash and that can be squeezed again, harder, to get some lower-quality oil. There were only so many virgin olives and premium rides to work with. Those were gone in the first squeeze. All that's left is the second and third time around squeezings.
Of course, new generations have their own opinions on what is cool-quality nowadays. That's understandable. That's how the system works. But that's no excuse for the old farts around here to flip-flop like they can change their DNA.

 

As someone of Italian descent, I understand your analogy completely.

 

I go to a lot of shows and there are the occasional moredoor but I would hardly call it a trend. But I was moved to writing a few lines of verse
In The Darkest Depths of Moredoor - By BB

Buy em cheap, make em run,
hit the streets and have some fun!
But watch BJ and Mecum,
before spending your retirement on one.

 

I used to be 2 door only kind of guy, but the way prices have gone I think I could learn to live with a 4 door. Especially on bigger cars...

 

I am in the 2dr camp, with a few exceptions, 49 to 51 Merc 4drs, 61 to 64 Lincoln 4drs, and mid 50's GM 4dr hardtops. 2dr wagons are also cool.

 

Just like brand loyalty for engines, only being loyal to certain body styles is complete nonsense IMO. What I mean by that, is if you hate on a four door or a wagon only because you were taught it wasn't cool by someone that arbitrarily decided that then you really aren't independently deciding for yourself what you think is cool or not. That seems more like puppetry. That and hating on others cars just because it isn't what you like (happens a lot) says more about you than their car. I have a bunch of cars, some "desirable" and some not. The feeling I get when I drive them is what matters to me, and nothing else.

A new podcast from Irontrap discusses enjoying the hobby, I really liked this statement at the end:

When I was a young boy in the 90's my dad bought a 64 Impala SS (2 Dr HT) to replace one they had in the 70's pre-kids. My car memories were formed going to events and just regular grocery runs and errands in that car. When my dad built another one in the late 90's, it was a 1941 International pickup because it was "not a Ford or Chevy". When I was in my teens looking for a car, I would go look at all the 64 2-doors that would pop up. Most of them were trashed. At some point in the early 2000's I realized that I rarely saw any 4-doors or wagons, and the ones I did see were done pretty cool so that's what I wanted. At 18 I ended up with a 1-owner 62 4-door sedan Bel Air with original paint and interior that was totally stock. I drove it all over with just a lowering job and different wheels for years. 20+ years later I've slowly been upgrading parts and making it what I want it to be. It was never about affordability for me, it was always about being different from what you usually saw around at shows. That's always what I've sought in cars, individuality. Sure, now I can afford any body style that I want, but I love the stuff I have and as I hang onto my stuff, the end value really doesn't matter to me. I don't like all 4-door body styles, but the ones I don't like are because the style doesn't speak to me. The same way I don't like all pickups, 2-doors, convertibles, roadsters, etc. The style of my 4-door speaks to me. If it doesn't speak to others I couldn't care less. I'll keep enjoying the hobby my way, and I hope everyone else in the hobby keeps enjoying it their way.

 

A body style they stopped after 1961 in the Bel Air. Sadly there don't seem to be any production numbers available for that model. They're neat cars, though.

 

In the late eighties I picked up a 1957 Plymouth Belvedere 4 door hardtop for parts. It had a bad motor and transmission. The body was pretty good and after grabbing the parts I needed I could not bring myself to scrap it. I ended up putting in a late seventies 318 and torqueflite. After a little quick bodywork, I painted it with some cheap enamel and used it as a daily driver for about 10 years. I finally sold it to a guy that wanted to do a full restoration on it. In all the time I had it I only got people commenting about what a cool car it was. No body ever said, "too bad it is a 4 door".

 

Truth!
Growing up all we had were 4-doors and no one had to tell me that they don't look as good as a 2-door. I figured that out for myself at a young age. Even though I've had a '40 two-many door for over 50 years I will always wish it was a Tudor.