I'm having a 354 Hemi built. No way I am going flat tappet. I've wiped out a cam on another type engine and I refuse to go through that again. I just don't need the stress, expense and work again. As they say, fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. That leaves me with a roller cam, either hydraulic or solid rollers. Adjustable rockers are now up near $2K so it's gonna be adjustable pushrods on non adjustable valvetrain. I've never adjusted adjustable pushrods, all I know is what I read, which leads me to believe they're a pain in the rear. That led me to lean toward hydraulic rollers, given the solids, while normally easy to keep adjusted, might not be so easy to keep adjusted with the adjustable pushrods thrown into the equation. Also a factor is that most of my experience is with Ford FE engines, and in the FE running solids on the street is frowned upon. Supposedly they get beat to death with street use and fail fairly rapidly. Is that the case with these Hemi's as well? That led me to lean toward hydraulic roller lifters. However, as I started down that road, it seemed to be that basically few go down that road on these engines. I've never really gotten an answer to why that is. In fact, there really isn't a hydraulic roller lifter specifically made for the early Hemi. Many say the big block Mopar lifters fit. Others claim small block will fit. Essentially everyone winks and says "wellllll, yeah, we can MAKE it work.." I'm not real happy with that. With flat tappets being 100% off the table, what to do??? This is easy in most other engines. In this 354 Hemi, it's not. Ideas, Hemi guys?
Dad and I just swapped his 392 Hemi from a Risky solid flat tapped cam to a Schneider reground roller with Water man hydraulic roller lifters. The lifters are the same ones that market for big block Mopar. Adjustable push rods are a *****, but modified wrenches like can help a lot. These are what I use. I almost forgot, we have put no miles on the new combo so far. I can't speak to the durability of the rollers.
Doug - There's basically two types of solid roller lifters. 1 - The old fashioned, roller bearings on an axle. They work...until they, suddenly don't ! The bearings will break, they can come out of their race. Once the bearing fails, so does a lot of the engine. Nothing new, happens a LOT. 2 - The newer design "bushing" style bearing. There's nothing to fail and come apart ! Only a lack of oil will cause them to fail, and even then, it's "only" that lifter, not most of the engine. The only thing,,.they are more expensive than the older style lifters. Both will work on the street...ONE...will be safer !! Most all roller lifters can be bought in either design these days. Mike
That's a similar story to the FE engine as well, Mike. I have a car (I think its HAMB friendly but I won't mention type so as not to be deleted) with a 520" 744 HP FE in it, and it's got the Crower Enduramax bushed solid rollers in it. Damn they were pricey. All in all I think I'd prefer the hydraulic rollers, but it seems the only way to get them in there is kind of a bootleg "this oughta work but we can't really say that" scenario. It's just weird. It's hard to believe no one makes a hydraulic roller specifically for this engine, and if it's the same lifter as the big block Mopar, why don't they just come out and say it rather than beat around the bush with comments like "it's worked for others but we can't officially recommend it". I almost feel like I'm doing a drug deal when I talk to the cam companies about hydraulic rollers for this engine, it seems like whispers and winks while making the deal.
Yeah, we Hamburgers can't understand why lotsa manufacturers don't make custom parts readily available for seventy-year-old-obsolete engines. If you think 354" hemi parts are scarce, build Packard V8s. BTW, we use Mopar roller lifters in those ;>) One of the reasons the manufacturers are vague about which roller lifters fit your 354" is the lifter bore spacing for the paired link lifters for solid rollers. The OEM hydraulic lifters don't use links, but custom spiders which match the later blocks. And yes, adjustable pushrods are a gigantic PITA; once in frame, running the overheads require four hands working in the back corner where there isn't room for two. jack vines
I used Gaterman rollers in a 392 package. Gaterman lists them for the B&RB engines and they were a perfect fit in the 392. I can't offer any reason that they don't list the EarlyHemi as an application. Schneider made the cam, damn fine job! As to adjustable rockers, they are fine for solid lifters but I do not use them on a hydraulic due to the limited oil groove/window in the screw that is not compatible with 0.060 preloads.
I tried hydraulic lifters to no avail (There's another subject like this that explains that to me 20 years later). I went back to solid lifters and my rocker arms that had Audi(?) adjusters in them -- that was all 20 years ago. I've adjusted them once in that time. It's not a race engine and I don't drive it daily, but I can understand how it works.
Speaking as a guy that does not work for any auto manufacturer, I'd guess the reason they don't say "fits all BB mopars and early chrysler hemis" is because they have not tried them in a dozen motors with 100% success. One customer motor with a different lifter bore spacing, casting height, oiling p***age variability, lifter bore size (all possible with 50s production tolerances), or just plain loose nut behind the wrench install will mean they have bought something that is hard to locate and acquire for someone who is going to be unhappy no matter what. US consumers these days want it cheap, fast and good, with a warranty. Unless it can be proven that it does work in every case, it's not worth the liability to include the sentence for a dozen (or 100) sales a year. I'm not knocking you, OP. It's just the world we live in. They quite possibly already have had someone come back after buying a set who had issues. Unless they were able to identify the exact root cause and be able to determine how to check and possibly fix the issue and then communicate this to potential customers, it's better to simply say that it is on the customer to check fitment. Especially on a 'high performance' part which we all know has little to no warranty and will be used in something like your street driven low lift, low spring pressure, low RPM engine to the guy that is past 3/4 inch lift, 500 pounds spring pressure and is winding the RPM up like he's 5 feet behind going into the traps in the finals at Bakersfield.
Hey Mike, Do you know if OEM hydraulic roller lifters use a bushing? The GM style with the spider tray.
Some roller lifters, usually the cheap ones, rely on splash lubrication to the axle. These are trouble on the street. Lack of oil during extended idle can waste them, also start p in the spring after a long hibernation. As far as I know, all bushed rollers have pressurized oil routed to the axle. And some of the needle bearing rollers have it. As long as you have pressurized oil to the axle, they will be fine on the street.
I need a little help deciding if I should go solid or hydraulic roller for a blown 354 build. Are solid or hydraulic lifters better for a lower/higher boost motor or is it just preference? This will be a street motor build, but I would like to build it strong enough if I decide one day to run 10lbs of boost instead of 5lbs. I've done a ton of reading on the Tech section, but most of the posts don't answer the questions I have. I'm using the factory crank which was magged etc. and is 10 under on the rods and 20 under on the mains. I'm not looking to build a 1000hp motor, but I also don't want stuff breaking my I get on it. Thanks
The hydraulic is generally good for 6000 RPM or so. If you're going to spin it much higher than that, you need to go with the solid.
OK I don't think I'll be going past that rpm! Are there any other performance gains with either? Is one set-up better s for higher boost etc?
The performance gain from solid lifters is negligible on a street engine. Just make sure that you have good quality valve springs. If you want more power, change pulleys.
Is anyone running a Herbert 8620 steel billet roller cam? What other manufacturers offer billet roller cams?
I have one in the 327 in my avatar with solid lifters. However, the lifters are modern with tie bar links. I have a little over 6000 mi on the engine.
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