1950 shoebox front suspension advice

In the 1997 Peking to Paris Rally there was a team that entered 2 1950 Ford Coupes.
A Brit driving a modified 1942 Willys MB was first and he lost some fingertips in the process due to frost bite.
2nd and 3rd were two 50 Ford Coupes.
That’s the most grueling territory on the planet. The roads in’97 were not much better than the first race in 1907.
These cars had their OEM suspensions beefed up and prepared for this race......heavy springs, that kind of stuff.
They were not lowered or did they have any kind of exotic front or rear end.

 

I can totally understand this. Building a vehicle to go basically off roading and Beat the Shit out of it is totally different than building car to drive for pleasure behind the wheel and look Kool doing it.

 

Going back to the OP's original post, it goes back to how he wants it to handle. The factory front suspension, as with most of the manufacturers of that era, were designed for the current roads and with about 1 degree of caster. Easier to turn at lower speeds but took more effort to "return" to neutral steering and bigger steering wheels were used. As the highways got better and speeds increased along with power steering, caster increased for cars to track better. Option 1 will only do so much as that caster can't be changed but so much due to design. Option 2 and 3 will create a better handling car but is a lot of work.

 

Narrowing an 8.8 2” is very easy shown many times on YouTube only a narrow side axle in necessary. This would be for stock leafs and fairly narrow wheels. Cal-Trac’s will hold it on the ground. 2” narrow in under my 56. A 1990 Ranger 8.8 is already narrow enough for your Ford.

 

Aerostar springs , blocks in back and you're done.

 

What if i use camber kit from shoeboxcentral? Could i solve your described issue?

In general i want a car which i can drive at highway speeds without being afraid of it. Plus i want it to be safe in modern traffic.

Your post only proves that i'm the right way for the rear, which is clear for me, OP was about front suspension

 

^^^^ The camber kit only addresses the camber. The original set-up adjusts the camber with an eccentric at the upper up right joint. The caster is adjusted with the threaded cross-shaft at the top, and the threaded bushing at the lower up right joint. You can get about 1 to 1-1/2 degrees caster. You may be able to use different thickness shims on the camber kit to get just a little more before the upright binds. Option 2 and 3 will get much more.

 

I'm also in the process of building a Shoebox and was wondering about handling issues as well. As I'm still working on the Body, I have no experience about driving on german roads yet.
However, here is what I consider as an improvement for steering: Replace steering gearbox with Volvo 140 gearbox.
https://streettechmag.com/2015/03/25/shoebox-ford-tech-installing-a-volvo-gearbox-in-a-49-51-ford/
https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/tech-volvo-steering-in-a-shoebox-ford-made-ez.253457/

 

I'm no expert on these cars but bearing in mind suspension technology when they were made, bone stock you're probably looking at something that goes around corners as good as (or as bad as) a GAZ 13. The question is, what do you want the car to do exactly. If the aim is something which handles reasonably well, tracks staright at 120-130 Km/H and stops, I think what people suggested about modifying the stock set-up would be enough (plus, VERY important, tire choice. Traditional or not, I'd only go for radials). Remember, the difference is between what is - really - a front suspension overhaul and a fabrication excercise. You're in Lithuania which means very few "proper" hot rod fabrication shops (if at all) and any major frame/suspension drafts could end up in disaster - plus they'll be much more expensive than getting bits from Jamco etc. I'm further down from you in Austria had the same dilema when I decided to modify my car (the one in my profile pic), which is why I went for what they used to do on them when they were new which invoved very little fabrication and still gave good results.

 

Yep, being in Europe makes it harder to hotrod these cars, but gives you more pleasure when its finished, especially if you like attention. as mine was crossing a town on a flatbed truck -got lots of thumbs up, just imagine how it would be nice to drive it on a road.
Right now my car is dissasembled and waiting for sand blasting. So as i was stripping it, found that all of the suspension parts were worn out with lots of flex/looseness in it. Thats why it felt so bad when i test drove it. So for now my plan is to rebuild front suspension like it was original, upgrade with bolt on parts, and see what i get. If it suits my needs - i've hit jackpot, if not - more expences to come. But as you noticed, very few proper fabricators are available in Lithuania, so its safer way for me to upgrade suspension step by step, instead of cutting the frame and get to the point of no return.

 

Thanks for the input!!!
Steering box is just one part of the whole suspension/handling setup, but if it helps to improve a lot, might give it a go. If only i could find one...

 

If I drive an old car, then I want that feeling. If I want new car feeling, handling, comfort, etc., then I drive a new car. From 1995 to 2006, I put over 80k miles on my 1950 Ford 2dr sedan. Built Flathead, 6 volt, bias ply tires, lowered 2 inches front and rear (Jamco springs), everything pretty much original with '69 Torino drum brake hardware kits (for self adjusting brakes. Drove everyday for first 3 years I had it. I did two 4k mile and three 2k mile round trips. Did 820 miles in one go on one of the trips. I believe I was running over drive transmission on all the trips. I saw as much as 20 mpg. To be honest I wasn't sure how it would be on the 1st trip. But, it was fantastic, windows open, lakes pipes open and '50s music playing on cassette player. Went down the road with no problems, cruised well and I may have hit 100 mph once. Just my 2 cents or was that 2 dollars worth. It's your car, enjoy it which ever way you go. Ron

 

Hey shywaz, I think you‘ve chosen the right track, rebuild what you‘ve got originally, include only minor improvements first. A frame clip is a lot more work and if needed you can do this later.
I‘ve got also a Shoebox waiting to come back to Germany roads and I‘ll start with Aerostar springs and camber kit from Shoeboxcentral.

I‘ve got experience with a 3“ front drop in my Taunus 17m and in the end I went back to a less radical drop because handling was really crappy.
These cars were designed to conquer rough tracks and uneven streets and not the autobahn.
But with everything tight and right alignment, they do better than you think. Avoid cheap tires is really important.

 

One thing that anyone contemplating running a stock front suspension on one of these should be aware of is that the factory specified a front end lubrication interval is only 1000 miles. Neglecting regular maintenance is what got them in the shape they are now. With the use these cars get these days and the better roads, you can probably get away with doubling that interval, but these are NOT today's lifetime sealed systems.

 

Am I seeing that right? You doing a bill? Lmao that's awesome

 

This old thread just popped-up on the main forum, you may want to have a look at it:
TECH: Johnny1290's Po-Boys Shoebox Ford Builder's Guide | The H.A.M.B. (jalopyjournal.com)

 

I am totally ignorant of how hard it is to do what we do in Lithuania but would imagine that shipping cost for American car parts would be huge. I suggest taking a tape measure and start looking at European cars for adaptable parts. This is basically what hot rodders did in the old days. Look at possible rear wheel drive cars. Volvos come to mind since Lithuania isn't that far from Sweden. Also, old cars like shoebox Fords have a fairly narrow track width and most late model stuff is wide. My neighbor is reworking a Volvo Amazon. He spent a long time trying to fit a Gen 4 Corvette front suspension and finally came to the conclusion it wouldn't work. Now if you were to try that with parts imported from over here on a whim and recommendations from us, only to find incompatibility, where would you go? You have Opels, Renaults, Maseratis, Fiats, Vauxhalls, Mercedes Benz, and how do you spell Poozho?

 

Peugeot
Luckily my shoebox come complete, it only had roof damage and rear window was gone. So for now biggest imported spare part was rear glass. Rust can be repaired, electronics too (there not so much of it) interior will be new anyway.
Also im getting donor vehicle and swap engine and transmission from it, plus other minor components. Plus i can get Ford explorer and shorten its wheelbase as for the rear end.
Anyway im not doing 100% original restoration, so no wories if something is from different car/period.

But when we talk about front suspension upgrades - im in a dead zone. None of the europeans (as far as ive searched on the web) will fit without major modifications. So ive come to the conslusion to try to rebuild stock shoebox suspension, upgrade where possible and hope the it will be OK. (Small/light parts can be imported at relatively small cost) If not, then i'll probably will get mustang 2 front end kit and somehow will import it, hopefully i wont need to do it
(my shoebox was also imported from the states, so everything is possible, but costly)

 

Well, in case you decide on a sub-frame change, there is also the option of using something from "our" pick-ups, like VW Amarok, Mitsubishi L200, Toyota Hilux, Mazda B2200/BT or the Ford Ranger as 4X2 versions. Not easy to find as the 4X4s but they were available and people bought them. It may be worth checking the track width on those - all came with front disc brakes and to me are as good as an S10 (or even better). They're likely to be available on scrap yards in your area and certainly in Germany.

I am adding one more thing, which is I have no idea whether Lithuania has now become infested with EUitis completely, namely everything is forbidden and any major suspension mod requires an approval (we in Austria must have it to stay legal, one more reason why I did not go for aftermarket suspension) but that's another issue altogether

 

Sadly we're EU regulations infested too, if you look closely at regulations - any mod is forbidden.
Also you might notice that shoebox doesnt have seatbelts - thats how they were in 1950. But our regulations require the car to have ones, also they must have a yellow blinkers on the side (fender), fog lights etc...etc...etc... None of the stuff which was available in 1950.
So in order to register a car, you can apply for "Historical" car status, but this way car must be 95% original, basically you can add new battery and tires, the rest must be like it came from the factory...
And then there comes blind spot in regulations you can register a car as a purpose built racecar, in my case "Drag" car. So then you only need to met Drag racing rules/regulations, be a member of national racing association, have racers license, and other minor stuff.
I hope nothing will change when i finish my build

 

This one has a 330hp 351windsor with amc pacer front clip and ford 9 inch in rear.

 

Your Race car registration is pure luxury compared to german rules, but seatbelts are worth to think about anyway.