Technical Very worn rocker ball pivot

I have been told that once a lobe and lifter have mated, they should always stay together. I have also been told it is fine to have new lifters mate to an old cam (assuming the old cam is in good condition). I have done the old cam/new lifters thing several times with zero issues but I doubt I've ever put 30,000 miles on them and, I think you mentioned towing a camper so reliability is pretty important. The fact that I'd just drop in new lifters doesn't mean it's the right thing for you. That being said, I guess there's also no reason to swap out the roller-tip rockers, just replace the damaged one(s) now that you know why they weren't getting oil.

Good luck

 

F I have heard good things about the comp dlc coated lifters, and even bought a set when I got a thumper cam. The cam to me looked like garbage and I wasn’t about to risk it trashing my engine. So went with Howard’s retro roller cam and isky/johnson hydraulic roller lifters. Not cheap, but I’ve seen a lot of issues with comp and morel retro hydraulic roller lifters with my extensive research, so coughed up the dough for them. I have seen great reviews on the hardened foot gm lifters summit sells and people swear by them on all the engine forums I’m on. $184 a set and haven’t seen anyone wipe a lobe out using them yet. I hope it’s possible to use flat tappet cams again because I certainly can’t afford another retro roller setup for my 283 upcoming build. Good luck with your build.

 

Also wanted to show you this. My 283 came in my 36 and I had paperwork from the people who got it at a salvage yard and they raced the car and drove all over California in it. Sold to the next owner and he drove all over California in it and then sold it to another guy, then I got it. It had a lifter tick so started adjusting them and had 2 not piling up through the pushrod. Took the pushrods out and blew air through them and one started piling but the other still didn’t. Took off the rocker and seen the oil hole had never been drilled all the way through. Ball and rocker still looked good with no wear. Never seen that before, just another gut punch this car has given me lol. Took awhile to grind that nipple down enough so I could drill the hole.

 

Those lifters coming apart are more common in recent flat tappet lifters. Need to make sure that you have decent preload, like a half turn. Or get new lifters that use snap ring circlips instead of the hokey wire ring clips most lifters today come with. The cheap wire clips have a reputation for popping apart, especially if you run them with very little preload. You can buy the snap ring clips and just replace the wire clips when you buy new lifters if they don't come with them. I've gotten where I replace those wires anytime I buy new lifters. My local Ace Hardware sells snap ring clips, and I use my arbor press to compress the lifter and change them out.

 

Is the cam in your picture the one you thought "looked like garbage"? I'm assuming that the finish on the lobes is what has you concerned. If so, the finish looks like the lobes have been "Parkerized". This is actually a surface treatment that protects the lobe finish and provides, at least temporarily, a thin layer of material that helps hold lube on the lobe surface. This can be especially helpful during the cam break-in period.

Years ago it was common for many OEM and aftermarket cams to have this Parkerized finish automatically applied. Now it seems that many cam grinders offer Parkerizing as an extra cost option.

 

Yeah I knew about the finish surface, I’m talking about the way the cam lobes look like they are cast off center to the other half and the sharp edges that would slice my hand putting lube on. I’ve bought a lot of cams from comp years ago and never had one look like that. I can always take the sharp edges down but I shouldn’t have to, I never did in the past. And the lobes always looked like one lobe not two cast into one, that someone shifted the mold as it was being made. They were always one straight lobe like a factory cam. Maybe I’m too picky in my old age, but these are not the comp cams quality I used to get and still have an old new xm 278 I’ll use before this one.

 

What caught my eye was the Parkerized finish. I don't think it's applied as frequently on new cams as it was years ago and a lot of members here may have never seen it before.

I hadn't really noticed that it does look like there was some core shift when the cam blank was cast. Now I'm curious to know how much of a difference it might make. Though I do have to agree that it looks sort of flaky.

 

Thanks for the suggestion. Got those lifters on order with a new cam(same as I had before), timing chain, clutch, manifolds, etc

 

Yeah the sharp edges that I’ve never had on any cam I’ve purchased seem to be caused by the sections not lining up, like core shift. I had already waited 3 or 4 months before I was even ready to look at the cam and tried to return it, but the website said it had already been too long. Wall art maybe lol.

 

That happens so many times. You buy parts and don't open the boxes to check them out for 6 months, until you are ready to use them. Then find out there is something wrong with the parts, and too bad. You waited too long to return or get your money back.

 

Pulled the cam…

 

Yep... She's wiped.

 

I don't know if you have thought about this.

Why not a Regrind cam, normally they are less prone to the failures we see these days?
Also you may look into going back to AC delco valvetrain. I know it sounds dumb, but factory rockers and balls seems to always wear well and last for a long time. Since your not sitting with huge spring pressures etc might as well follow the KISS rules. Also what springs are you using on the valve? Hopefully not some double spring with huge pressure.

 

I am using the springs that came with the comp cam kit, I can’t see any info on their spec sheet on them. They do have a smaller inner spring

 

Analyzing flat tappet camshaft lobe wear patterns. Engine type and manufacturer can make a difference in wear patterns.

 

I wouldn't regrind a camshaft that had worn out prematurely! If it didn't have a proper heat treat before it sure wont get better reground.

 

Love Tony, he knows his stuff, I knew about taper and crown on lifters but did not know about taper direction and how it affects cam walk.
Dan

 

I believe you said you were getting a new cam & lifters , what are the recommendations for springs ? It shouldn't be difficult to find the specs on the springs you have , yeah , it's important ! So is installed height !

 

What'd you think held the cam in place ?

 

There's no reason there should be any pressure against those clips UNLESS , the valves are not adjusted correctly or the engine is being over-revved and the valves are floating or a mechanical failure of a valvetrain component , again , usually by over-revving .

 

I kind of knew about the taper angle but mostly associated it with helping to rotate the lifters. Hadn't thought about using different angles on different positions on the same cam to help reduce or eliminate camshaft thrust. Pretty interesting balancing act going on in some engines.

 

That’s why if you switch to a retro roller cam, you have to use a cam button since the cam now wants to push forward and some videos I’ve seen of cams even with a button the cover will flex too much, causing timing irregularities. Need a cover built for a cam button use. Lot to learn if swapping to roller and a lot of mistakes to try to avoid. I hope I have them all covered when I can get to work on my engine. Never put cam bearings in before and have seen a hundred different ways to line up the holes and read articles on what angle the hole should be for best pressure/ware. Still not sure what im going to choose yet. Have 3 months 10 lbs weight restriction and not sure after that.

 

I knew about taper and crown and how to check.
I knew cams walk one way or the other, I knew some cams required buttons and I have rebuilt engine with a thrust plate, just never thought about the physics when engine accelerates an decelerates.
I learn something everyday.
Dan

 

I did cam bearings once. After messing up a few installing them, I won’t do it again.
But I had a as-built factory engine, and was told “put the holes in the bearings on the same spot as the factory did”. tried, but lipped the bearings a few times before getting it right.

After that, let the guys who do it daily take care of it

 

You may have not gotten the right bearing in the proper hole since they are different sizes on some. The box tells you which ones can go where. May not been the problem, but something to watch for sure, I watched my dad put ours in and he just lined up the holes and drove em in in proper order, I also bought a couple sets one for the 283 and one for the 350 in case I screw up, which is more than likely to occur I can use the 283 ones , since its looking like the 283 might just be a garage queen, and get painted up with cal customs valve covers and I got a intake for it to. Thats before I finished tearing it apart and found it needed the heads redone and new bearings minimum. Cant afford retro roller cam and new heads for 2 builds thats for freaking sure, so the 283 will be flat tappet cam if I ever decide to build it. If not at least the parts will get out of the boxes and look cool and wont cost me anything but time.

 

I have installed SBC cam bearings several times without issue. I bought a SBC cam bearing tool (off eBay) and it has worked perfectly every time. The tool I bought uses three collars and a shaft to align/install each bearing ... two collars locate/center the shaft while the third guides the bearing. I have noticed that some install tools only come with two collars but I don't see how a tool with only two collars could possibly work as well as one with three collars. As for the bearing orientation ... after researching the topic on the 'net and coming across several different opinions on positioning the bearings and the reasoning behind each, I decided it would be in my best interest to copy exactly what the factory did. I had a couple of bare blocks around (that still had factory cam bearings in them) and used one of them as my template. I had been quoted $60 to install cam bearings by a very reputable engine shop (not including bearings) but decided I'd rather spend double that on a tool I get to keep. That's what worked for me

 

Thanks the video. I found another I’m making my way thru. I’m wondering why just one cam lobe got significant wear on it, the faces on all my lifters looked intact at a quick glance

 

Wow!! Guy must have been deaf not hear the rockers clattering like a herd of elephants with tap dancing shoes on a metal roof. Never seen damage like that. Most people don’t understand the tiny metal particles have gone throughout the entire engine. It needs taken totally apart and gone through. Engine hot tanked and oil passages cleaned. I wouldn’t even use the same pistons on this one. The skirts would be so scratched up cylinder walls same, crank and all bearings. I’ve seen guys just change oil and put in another cam just to wipe out another. The real problem I’ve read about is going retro roller and thinking your on easy street and the false since of security your not going to wipe an engine out. That’s not the case a whole lot of the hydraulic roller lifters are failing at worst case or collapsing and others just are noisy like a bad adjusted solid lifter cam. Do your research, I’ve seen good about Johnson/isky and crane. Howard’s use morel and they are hit and miss and some are noisy. Comp rollers are made by morel and have a lot of problems. This is just what I’ve read in several different forums over a months time. I can’t tell you yet if my Johnson lifters are going to be worth the super high price like reviews I’ve all read, still not done building engine. I’ll let people know my results in a few months hopefully.

 

What did the factory holes look like on yours? I didn’t even pay attention to my 283 bearings while I had it on the stand. It’s all factory, so when I get some healing time and able too, I’ll drag it back out and check. Dad just put the holes with the holes. Never had real good oil pressure at idle when warm, was adequate with 10 lbs but kinda made me nervous sometimes. Thanks for info.

 

The hole location will have almost no effect on oil pressure, but will have a substantial effect on providing a good wedge of oil in operation.