HAMB, Let me start out by saying I've spent the evening searching the pages of Quick Change threads without any luck.... After coming back from the GATR (Gathering at the ROC) I discovered at some point, the front lower shaft bearing and seal failed on my quick change and lost nearly all of the gear oil. After removing the yoke the lower shaft feels like it's turning gravel which now means the bearings also need replaced. All other parts seem to be in good shape and move like they should. So, here's the question.... Can someone school me on how to remove the lower shaft of a 201 quick change center, so new bearings can be installed on the shaft? The unit is a Rodsville 201 center. I thought I'd ask here before bothering the fellas at HRW.... I'd like some reassurance as to how this is assembled/ disassembled so I don't mistakenly do more harm than good. Any help would be appreciated!!!
Bummer, I knew the case needed heated to remove the pinion, but was hoping that wasn't the case for the lower shaft bearings... Any chance one can heat the area with a torch, and if so any recommendations on where to heat besides not the bearing?
Here is a pic of the shaft: https://hotrodworks.com/product/quick-change-open-drive-kit/ This page suggest 300F and freezing the bearings, for assembly. http://saltflatsspeedshop.blogspot.com/2012/06/tech-on-assembling-halibrand.html
Perfect! I forgot about Salt flats write-up....it's been a minute but that's exactly what I was looking for...Thanks!
A propane torch or two would be good. Get one of those laser thermometers to keep an eye on the temp. The front bearing is already trash, that makes the rear bearing suspect. I wouldn't worry about damaging the bearings, taking it apart. Should have two new lower bearings at the very minimum. Did you buy this piece new ?
I did yes, came from HRW about 10 years ago...they did the axle conversion and initial setup, I just reassembled when it arrived. I might make this my winter project and tear the rear axle down and do it right. I'd rather not risk the case integrity with spot heating it.
The lower shaft, for the Closed Drive, there are two circlips which appear to center the shaft between the bearings. https://hotrodworks.com/product/quick-change-lower-shaft-6-spline-closed-drive/ On the Open Drive, I don't see any circlip grooves. https://hotrodworks.com/product/quick-change-open-drive-kit/ It appears that the inner race on the front bearing is sandwiched between the yoke, and the shoulder on the shaft. It would take some doing to ruin the case with heat.
I was told to heat the case until the gear lube in the pores really starts to stink. When you get to that point the bearings should come out easily. I always used an acetelene torch with a rosebud tip.
Maybe I'll give torches a try then.... My guess is it was starved of oil while running 80mph for 6 hours after the front seal failed....that's my only guess....the pinion is fine though and rear gears appear still look new. When I realized what happened when we got home, I drained a little over a 1/2 qt out, it's all that was left.
Also it is the closed drive shaft... Which I have the c-clips off. I just need the shaft to release from the bearings or the bearings to release from the case.
The bearings SHOULD be a light press fit onto the shaft. You don't want the shaft loose in the bearing. Protect the end of the shaft with a piece of wood, and give it a smack. If the bearings come loose, that is fine too.
I remember a World of Outlaws race at Eldora: there was a Red flag with less than 5 laps to go. All the cars stop on the front straight, Steve Kinser is 3rd. Many of the top teams rush onto the track to make changes to their cars. This was back when you were allowed to work on your car under a Red flag. The rule at the time might have said, "no changing tires". Steve's crew comes out, among other changes: they pull the cover, change out the rear gears, and reinstall the cover. They did NOT put the oil back in the rear end. No time. He won the race.
oldsboy : Look at the shaft, where the seal rides. See if you identify any scratches that would make the seal fail. Possible that the bearing failed first, allowing the shaft to wobble.
That's a good point, I'll have a look at this tonight and follow back up regarding the shaft. Thanks again for the help. Updates to follow...
What? You have the closed style shaft, using it with an open front? So basically the C clips are taking all the load. While you have it apart I think you should change it for the proper open style shaft with the flange behind the front bearing. It’s there to capture the bearing when the yoke is bolted on tight.
The force of the driveshaft working. I dunno if it’s really significant, but Ted thought it was significant enough to warrant a revision of the way the shaft captures the bearing.
Alchemy, I've been considering that very thing... my only apprehension or question is would the drive shaft then need to be extended due to the shorter shaft length of the lower shaft? It appears the open drive shaft mounts the yoke closer to the case... Anyone out there able to measure and give the yoke to case distance on an open drive lower shaft unit?
Was your yoke bottoming on the bearing before? If yes, then the distance should be the same since the bearing is in the same place. If no, then what is in between the yoke and bearing?
The yoke on a converted closed to open drive unit uses the roll pin to hold the yoke in place. This is the roll pin that goes through the coupler of a closed drive setup pinning the drive shaft to the pinion of a banjo or in this case the lower shaft of a closed drive quick change. I believe there was about +/-1.5" of space between the end of the conversion yoke and the face of case...
Yeah I really think you should convert to the proper shaft. Even if it requires a longer driveshaft. Let me know if the existing closed drive shaft is for sale and I could help recoup some of your costs.
Agreed....I'm going to pull the rear this week and do it right after all. Once I get things apart I'll decide which way to go....but for now I'm leaning towards the open drive lower shaft swap. @alchemy, Thank you Sir....I'll PM you when I figure things out
The flange is stronger, I do like that design better. But assuming straight cut gears, the axial loads are low in this application. In this example, the circlips did not fail.
Quick update: I wound up removing the rear axle from the car. This allowed me to tip it up on end and drive the lower shaft out the rear which took the rear bearing with it. A torch was then used to help release the front bearing from the case, along with a slide hammer, to get it pulled out.... I'll add a few photos later today, but all in all this wasn't bad. It took longer to get the axle out. We'll see how well assembly goes....more updates to come, along with bearing numbers.
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