Technical I'm getting conflicting information on '30s Mopar lug bolt pattern

Start with some good news. I'm in the process of buying a 1931 Plymouth Business Coupe.
Kind of excited.
Ok, really excited.

Of course, I'm doing research on the old Mopars. Including the lug bolt pattern. Partly because the car is missing the front brake assemblies. Should be pretty simple. But I guess I still don't have it nailed down. Maybe you guys can help me out. Correction, I know you guys can help me out. Maybe you guys are willing to help me out.

I was under the impression that Chrysler, DeSoto, Plymouth and Dodge all used the 5 x 4.5" lug bolt pattern for a long time. Since like 1930. Any of the online information and charts that I've seen for the old Mopars show 4.5" in diameter bolt circles right down the line.

And yet some people are telling me different. I was looking at a 1932 DeSoto chassis on the internet. I was talking to the son of the seller. He thought the lug bolt pattern was probably 5.5" He said they tried to put some 1933 Dodge wheels on it and they didn't fit. Also, one of our hamb brothers here @Budget36 has kindly offered me a set of 1932 Plymouth front brake assemblies. He double checked the bolt circle for me. Fer sure... 5.5"

Vart-De-Fark ???

Thank you, sirs.

 

My pal Rene' had 5.5 bolt pattern on his '32 Plymouth PB coupe. HRP

 

I think the 5x4.5 showed up around 33

 

Thanks, guys.
And yet...

 

I will mention that anyone who was writing/editing a chart like that was probably 20-30 years from the time, at least. They were probably relying on an older published source, which may have made a mistake. Yes they might have hired an older mechanic who had experience with the cars, or it was simply an editor who was using the info that had passed down or had to fill the box with something.
I've got the Encyclopedia Of American Cars (2001) on my lap. It does NOT have production broken down for 1930. On page 746, it has a 3 paragraph footnote explaining the issues with carrying over a 29 model into 30 and a 30 model carried over into 31, so no exact figures. It also mentions the 76,950 figure applying to a single model for 30 and 31 but not borne out with the serial numbers. Seems different sources have different information and it conflicts. This is not uncommon!
You may say, Production is what the factory says, bolt pattern is on the car and can be verified! Guess what? You are trying to do just that! Hope it goes well for you!

 

Thanks brother @RodStRace for taking the time and effort. I have no doubt at all that some of the information and charts are simply wrong. Seems to be more good information out there for the Fords and Chevys. Poor little red-headed stepchildren Mopars. LOL

Well, I tend to believe what you guys are telling me and certainly those with first-hand knowledge more than some chart.

But what also confuses me, is I read that all the Mopars of this era shared a lot of components. And as far as I can see, any charts for Chrysler, DeSoto and Dodge list the same 4.5" bolt circle.

Oh well, not a big deal. I'll eventually be installing all different stuff anyway. But because this car doesn't have front brakes, I was trying to get some stock parts that would be sure to fit and get me up on all fours. Mainly just so I can reasonably get the car onto the trailer when I go to get it.

But I think I'm just going to u-bolt a small trailer axle onto the springs. Or run a solid rod through the very front of the frame horns where the spring eyelets attach and put some wheelbarrow tars on there.
Or sump'n.

 

They are still here, @Rickybop

As I mentioned, once you get the car, check the rear end BP.

 

And, if you want to run it with the older stuff, get your rear drums/hubs off. (Assuming yours is 4.5 BC) and we can compare axle diameter/taper measurement ,etc. my rear stuff (I’m thinking) could fit.

 

It all depends on what's in your stash, but a couple HF dollys, one ratchet strapped to each spring might do in a pinch. You might ask/check bearings for the applications. Same bearings (from a reputable source) should mean same parts will slide on. If it's just a catalog, well, you already know the knowledge base is shaky.

 

Thanks Mike!
But I have to hurry up and get this car. The guy's not wanting to wait for long. So no time to ship your parts. But that's okay. I just need to do something real temporary to get it on and off the trailer.
And I pretty much decided not to use stock brakes for my build.

 

How about renting a two wheel tow dolly from UHaul and strapping it in place? https://www.uhaul.com/Trailers/Tow-Dolly-Rental/TD/

 

I was thinking about a tow dolly, @5window
It would definitely simplify loading and unloading.
But I don't know if it's the best idea to trust that rear axle for almost 100 miles. The previous owner did drive the car home in 1969. But still, I'll be more confident that I'll make it all the way home if I use a car trailer.

Gave this some more thought. Actually, the main problem is, a tow dolly is not designed to be used with a vehicle that has no front tires.

 

I'm not gonna be able to relax until it's safe here in my garage.

 

You could wait a couple months and bolt on skis!
https://www.proxibid.com/lotinformation/77320860/model-t-skis

 

My dad's 33 Dodge runs the original front axle and brakes. It has a 5x4.5" bolt pattern.

 

Fark the internet for true information. Most sites copy and paste the same info with incorrect stuff intact.
As Moriarty pointed out use a Hollander for correct specs. The 16th rdition was printed during that time frame as was the bible for salvage yards and shops pre-internet. Yards would send in updates if they found a workaround a parts fitment and Hollander would update their books hence the revised editions.

 

I'm thinking that Mopars were a bit like a lot of post war GM cars. The base models almost all used the 5 on 4-1/2 lug bolt pattern and the the big engine or big chassis versions of some models had a different bolt pattern.

I've got one 16 inch wire wheel that is a dead ringer for a 35 wire until you look on the back side and see the 5 on 5-1/2 lug pattern. I got it in half of a pair of what I thought was a super deal on a pair of 35 wires at a swap meet one afternoon a few years ago

 

You could ask if there is a HAMB guy that lives in the vicinity where the car is that could go and check the lug bolt pattern for you.

 

Ahhhh. I see. When we talked I was under the impression you wanted the car to be on all 4’s to move it around at home. Not just to get it on the trailer.
All good!

 

I don't know what the hell I'm doing, Mike. LOL

Days ago, I asked the fella selling the car to measure the rear lug bolt pattern. Hard sometimes to get sellers to do anything at all to help. Especially if they don't care about the thing. But he finally did.
5 X 5.5"

Not hard to get you guys to help. Thank you.

5-in bolt circle on the DeSoto, Mark? @Moriarity
Dang... good thing I didn't drive 4 hours to Ohio to get that DeSoto chassis.

 

I don’t know what I’m doing once I get off the horse, I have no one to think for me! (Old thing we say to a cowboy, really pissed them off).

 

You could always bolt any random trailer axle to the front springs with u bolts to get you onto the trailer, or bring enough help to man handle it up. I am not sure of your specific situation.

 

Jack the front up and back the trailer under the front then pull, it’ll go.

 

Yup. Trailer axle, wheelbarrow wheels...
Take a friend.
If I can find one...

Or just call upon my superpowers and draaaaaag it onto the trailer. Rub my ring, hold it up in the air...
SHAZAZ!!!

 

What do you mean You Guys?

If the Desoto chassis is cheap enough, it might help you with odd bits and pieces.
As said, if the bearings/spacing are the same, it might be a way to get a roller until you upgrade, too.
Recognize the left hand threads might be in the mix, too. I think it started later, but as with anything new to you, the history over almost a century is not written and shared.

 

I just gotta get 'er home.

And then I think suspension and axles will be first on the list. A nice bulletproof Dana 60. And front axle and springs for an aggressive stance.

Thanks for the help!
See ya soon!

 

https://www.ply33.com/Models/PA/specs.html

This indicates the same bearing used thru some years.
https://www.oldmoparts.com/parts/e_wheels/front-wheel-inner-bearing-and-cup/
https://www.oldmoparts.com/parts/e_wheels/front-wheel-outer-bearing-and-cup/

One of these bought now would probably help going down the road, even with a lot of hot rod changes.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/402528525627

 

Heck, I'd just ratchet-strap a $20 furniture dolly to the front cross member and then use a come-along to pull the thing onto a trailer. Looks like a really cool project.