As If You Didn't Hate The LS Enough Already...

The majority of the stuff I own is carbureted, but I must admit that I fell for the LS craze a while back. I got really close to putting one in a project of mine, but I have discovered something that I just can't get p***ed...

It seems like the number one failure point of the LS is the oiling system. More LS engines fall and fail due to improper oiling more that any other engine I've ever heard about. So I'm sticking with the SBC.

I'm not saying that the SBC can't fail due to improper oiling, but what I am saying is that I've not heard them fail as much to it as I have the LS.

What are your thoughts?

 

We've had a few of them in modern vehicles, including one of the very first 5.3 engines, which we put 280k miles on and it still had oil pressure. But yeah, I've heard the stories and seen the damage. Might help to get a low mileage one, but unfortunately they mostly all have the valvetrain trickery in them (AFM).

If you do get a used one, be sure to go through the oiling system, at least replace the O ring on the pickup.

But I can think of lots of other reasons not to put an LS in an old car.

 

Can't stand those.... Enough said!....

 

The oiling system "issues" are cheap and simple fixes...

-Simple oil pump swap with a Melling, literally takes 45 minutes to do.
-Oil pump pickup tube retainer & 2nd bolt. Again 45 minutes.
-Some have lifter issues, easy fix....replace the lifters. 10x easier than SBC.

If you buy a used worn out engine that wasn't taken care of, you may have these issues, but if you get one that's been maintained you're usually in good shape. There are heaps of 300k mile LS engines that were yanked out of a truck or van, thrown into some old car with a turbo or nitrous on top, never even changing the valve springs or the camshaft, or any bottom end parts, and are making 500-1000+hp at the tires.

 

but that's the problem, the oil pump isn't down where the oil is, it has to get to the pump...and when that p***age develops leaks and ****s air instead of oil, bad news.

 

I’ve seen where the cam bearings will turn in there hole blocking oil to the top end, bad part half the cam bearings come out the back of the block so engine comes out.
Probably need a cam, bearings, lifter’s and oil pump to get back on the road. Starts adding up fast.

 

I wouldn't trade my LS3 for any other GM or Ford V8.
Simply put I have a 500hp engine that uses ****** all fuel and starts every time I turn the key.
The plugs last forever and it doesn't go out of tune.
what's to not like?
Sure it isn't he prettiest engine but I've never had anyone tell me it's ugly, and not too many cars can keep up with it..

 

yeah, I don't like them, either.

 

I got my first LS motor and my first Chevy truck and lost the motor to a bad valve getting shut down thing . It now sits dead on the side and I’m not a fan .
Yeah I looked at used motors and sorry to say I didn’t think folks always tell the truth as some looked like garbage but ran great going to church back and forth…. Looked at new ones but what’s a good one that will last? It’s sad GM isn’t taking responsibility to a design flaw..

 

I don't consider myself the younger generation but that's where I'm at right now. I have a complete, mostly original 1930 Chevy roadster that the motor keeps fighting me on. I tried to sell it but there isn't much interest in the early Chevys. I keep seeing LS motors on marketplace for sub $500, some with transmissions. It's really tempting to snag one or two, box the frame, beef up the brakes/rear end and never open my hood.

 

Zuffen I’ve never seen your engine but it’s ugly! That being said they are capable of producing good HP for cheap. I’ve never owned one but my oldest son is a Chevy freak and has had a few 5.3s they run good and one for sure was run hard without a failure. They are a good engine IMO
Dan

 

Best SBC ever made
Avoid the DOD ones
Seen lots of em go over 300k
seen ****py maintained ones spit out cam bearings and kill lifters.

I still dig my old engines and plan to keep messing with em but putting an LS in my step van. No brainer. Picked up a complete set up with trans for $350.
5.7 from a trans am

Never understood the dislike for em.
They’re all just metal chunks with holes

 

THANK YOU, Sir!!

Ben

 

Ya know, when "hot rods" first started, in my neck of the woods anyway, it was to get more power, more speed , whatever, than the next guy. In whatever way we could. For the least amount of cost.
The modern engine fits that bill. Same as Blonds, Brunettes, and Redheads, we all have our favorites.

I chose to " hop up " a straight eight. An LS would likely have been cheaper. It or a SBC, or a 454 would produce mor HP. Just not as much fun , IMO.

Ben

 

I had a junkyard 5.3 that I was putting a hot cam in... well, I was pulling the old cam out, it was stuck for a bit until a cam bearing came out with the cam. I tossed the block in the bed of my truck, took it to the local machine shop, and the machinist put new cam bearings in it for $80 (including the cost of the bearings), I picked it up a few days later, put the cam in it, re***embled it and put it in an S-10 I was building into a little drag/street truck. I later sold the S-10 before I got it running and I told the buyer (local young kid) that I wasn't sure of the history of the engine but the internals looked good and it has this new rowdy cam and new cam bearings, new lifters, and new head gaskets. He got it running a few weeks later (that was 4 years ago) and since then he has been going to the drag strip every other weekend or so spraying a 200hp shot of nitrous on that little junkyard engine. Two weekends ago I saw him running 6.50's in the 1/8 mile on that $200 junkyard engine that had a cam bearing fall out of it and it still has the stock oil pump/pickup, stock throttle body, intake, heads, valvetrain, etc.

Meanwhile I've sent rods through oil pans of SBC's and split SBF's into half with half as much nitrous.

My current 5.3 put 670hp to the tire on a stock ECU. Now it has Holley EFI and a bigger turbo and a more efficient exhaust, and a bigger fuel pump & injectors so 800whp should be a breeze... on a bone stock 200k mile bottom end. It's literally a stock engine with the only internal "performance parts" being valve springs and a camshaft, and that's it.
Stock: heads, intake, throttle body, fuel rails, rockers, rods, bolts, rings, bearings.

Comparison of engine platforms is dumb. The LS may not have it's place here on the HAMB, or maybe not in your vehicle, but being ignorant to what they are is just that, ignorant. The fastest street cars at any local drag strip... LS powered. The majority of cars that finish Drag & Drive type events such as Hot Rod Drag Week, Sick Week, Race Week, etc....they're LS powered. It's a proven, reliable, and affordable engine that fits in pretty much anything.

Anyway, I still like other engines and will own them, but the LS is my choice for the last few builds. I'd never put one in something that doesn't have a hood, and I'd never pop my hood to show off my LS engine.

 

All I know is it made used low mile SBC’s cheap!

 

I have carbureted SBC stuff and LS (Gen 3) stuff. I love them both for very different reasons. If you make me choose... LS all the way.

I have never had a SBC run 200k+ without issue. I have run a few LS engines with well over that number. They have built millions of them. Some last longer than others.

My bottom line is run whatever you want. Run more than one type of engine. Life can be full of fun experiences.

 

All I know about the LS motors is what my grandson tells me. He is a tech at a Chevy dealership. His wife has a 2019 (or 2020) Chevy truck that is on its 2nd motor and about to get the 3rd new camshaft, all replaced under warranty. He doesn't hold a very high opinion of the LS motors as a whole.

It does seem that the companies that mess with the cams/lifters to cut (or gain) cylinders is an industry failure that most auto brands followed. I have not heard much proud acclaim concerning this, mostly across the board discussed people on both sides of the repair shop counter.

 

I’m pushing 350,000 miles on my 2006 gmc and never even given it a tuneup. Runs strong.
My weekend cruiser, no way.

 

As my profile pic attests, I am not a GM guy but you can't argue with what the LS offers for the price you pay. I just watched Toni D'angelo on YT buying a truck (I mean Isuzu delivery truck, not a pick up truck) engine for $350, putting in maybe $700 in cam, oil pump and rocker mods and getting 427 hp rwhp. Anyone who's interested, link below.

 

I work in a Chevy dealership there's a tech here that dose all the LS replacements he's a machine can pump out two and a half a week and makes good money. That was all I needed two see last spring bought a new colorado instead of the Silverado, it has the 310 horse turbo 4 and I love it. Take the good with the bad on the LS can't deny that they make big horsepower but I still hate them I'll stick to my vintage mills.

 

It's funny that you should mention Toni Angelo. He's the reason I started this thread. He's trashed more LS engines just from turning them on than anybody else I've ever seen. Rod knocking aluminum 5.3s even though he's replaced the bearings, pump, and pickup tube o-ring. Strange...

 

I missed that article from Marlan Davis, thanks! I have a co-worker going through this lifter failure fun on his wife's Suburban. He bought a boneyard take out replacement engine and has done the whole AFM delete. Running good finally. I've been following the development of the LS's bigger brother, the Ford Godzilla(!) and it sounds like they are experiencing a few lifter fail issues as well. Between these and the flat tappet fiasco, it seems with all of our high-tech capabilities as a society, we've forgotten how to make lifters!

 

I’ve had a Tahoe and a Yukon both with over 225,000 miles and love the LS motors. I have a 1980 square body step side that had a dog 80’s 350 in it. When it was time for a new motor I didn’t think twice, 5.3 with a cam and 4l60e using a Holley Terminator X Max to run both. Fifteen miles to the gallon in town and all the power I want or need with a mild tune, but so much more available and begging to be let out.
In certain vehicles they have their place, in a hot rod no but I to don’t understand the hate.

 

I'm not against using anything fast for anything that moves. Gasoline forever as Freiburger says...

What gets me is the "wait-and-see" nature of the swap. I dump thousands into a LS only to have it rod knock. I dump hundreds into a SBC, and I still have reliability.

The high stakes poker involved in a LS swap is what I don't want to play. Take the risk out, and I'm game.

I guess the one difference between failure and success with a LS that I have seen is using a qualified machine shop for your repairs. Even then, the rate of failure compared to rate of success still leaves my blood cold...

 

I have heard several machine shops say stay away from the LS!
They run great in their stock forms but don't mess with them, they are incredibly expensive, an LS doesn't belong in an old car!

My dad was telling me about an episode of Engine Masters where they tested the LS they said the same thing, and to do a retro fit it takes a $1,000 plus ECU and harness.

 

The facts are, installing any brand of modern motor as a retro fit into an old car is $1,000 + the ECU, but then you better understand the wiring, or spend another $2,000 on a wire harness that will allow the new motor run with out all the junk it was required to originally have.

Then you are gambling weather or not the newly installed motor is a time bomb waiting to explode. There seems to be a balance, almost any motor produced by any brand, either melts down by 50,000 miles or its still going strong at 300,000 miles. Which specific motor did you pick this time? I suspect the odds improve if you start with a motor that doesn't mess with the cylinder count by messing with the cam and lifters, but that also doesn't hold true across the board either. Modern motors were not designed to be rebuilt, they were designed to be replaced.

It ain't the good old days anymore.

The auto companies made their crate motors so cheap, it made rebuilding the old motors too costly to make sense. The old motors were s****ped by the millions, and the machine shops dried up. It took a few years for us to realize how bad we have hurt ourselves by buying the cheap crate motors. Its hard to argue with the miles those new motors have squeezed out of a gallon of gas, and that low buy in price, for a problem that may happen 5 years down the road, or never. It becomes a real issue when it comes to making power, these modern motors can make power a lot easier, compared to making the same power from the old style motors.

 

Back when I was young and worked on a NASCAR team we called this infant mortality of parts. We individually serial numbered and tracked mileage on critical parts during testing to determine when they were most likely to break. Most parts had a higher initial failure rate that dropped off then slowly rose as the parts wore out. Once we had a baseline only parts in the determined "safe" mileage made it to a race day track.

 

I've never had one but the 2K GMC 4x4 that my son had ended up with around 300K no trouble from the engine miles on it before he traded it for a 2015 with a 6.0. He was good about taking care of that 2K GMC though. He beat the **** out of it but it was in good shape and well cared for mechanically.
The trouble now is that for a lot of us one already has over 100 K and is several years old before the price gets down to where we are willing to buy it. I've been wanting to sell off my 77 one ton flatbed and get a later 6.0 crew cab to tow with and anything that isn't beat up brings a pretty stiff price.

 

This has to be it. Think about it. We're picking up 300K LS motors from the junkyards. This motor isn't used: it's used up. The fatigue on the engine as a whole at 300K, in my opinion, would require that you junk everything except the block and start over.

Even then, you'd have to have the block machined by a machining god who mainly, or only, specializes in LS engines. Past the "seasoned" block, everything would have to be new.

Looks like the modern engines have been mastered in such a way so that once they are done, they are done.