Technical Ford FE predicament

Hey everyone! I'm currently installing a Ford 390 in my shoebox coupe. The problem I'm running into is i want to run early valve covers that have no breathers or oil fill location with a later 428 PI intake. This leaves me with no place to fill the oil or a breather. The back of the intake has a place for a PCV valve. Can I just build a breather tube sort of like a flathead and put back there? I really don't want to cut up the valve covers or put the 90⁰ moon style breathers. I'd like to keep it looking clean. I guess my question is would a single breather in the intake that goes into the valley be enough ventilation? Or should I just break down and run later valve covers with breather provisions and use that spot for the PCV? Thanks in advance! David

 

How about using an intake with a fill tube? Don't think there will be enough venilation with a single breather.

 

Wouldn't that just give me a single breather? Just the fill in the front?

 

This will take some work but I would remove the intake and bore a hole for the filler and a hole for the efi 5.0 from the late 80's pcv grommet. You will need a splash shield to cover the grommet to keep from sucking oil out of the engine. I believe there is plenty of room at the rear of the intake for the pcv unless you have dual quads.

 

You don't have to have any of this PCV nonsense, you can just build a semi-closed system as was used in the 50's, think road draft tube, and let the crud build up inside.
The idea of breathers with a pcv valve is to 'ventilate' the crankcase. Air enters at a high point, travels down through the heads and into the crankcase and then is vacuumed from a mid point into the base of the carb. This keeps slightly negative pressure in the crankcase which, among other things, does help rings to seal.

 

How about using 63-64 intake which has filler tube and pcv port?

 

Hmmm...something about this doesn't sound quite right. The 50s and older engines I've worked on have a road draft tube, but they also have a vent opening to let air in, as you describe. The first change when they went to PCV systems in the early 60s was to replace the road draft tube with a PCV valve so it functioned all the time, instead of just when moving. At the end of the 60s they closed the system, so the breather was not vented to the atmosphere, but to the air cleaner, so the excess fumes that the PCV system couldn't deal with would be burned by the engine.

Yeah, you can get away with only a single breather, but make sure it's adequate to handle blowby, and change oil often. I expect you'll find that having only a PCV valve, with no other opening, will result in oil leaks from excessive crankcase pressure.

 

To answer you question, yes you can use that port in the rear of the intake fir an oil fill hole!





Bones

 

I'm just going to run later valve covers with breathers and use the stock pcv fitting out of the back of the intake. It's in a custom so the hood will be closed 99.9% of the time. This way there is no need to worry about proper ventilation or the pcv. I'll save the early valve covers for my Model A roadster. It will have a 3x2 intake that has the fill tube in the front. Thanks guyss

 

I have seen that. I read somewhere on the internet that the cap doesn't come off... like it's attached somehow? I emailed a guy that sells them on ebay asking if it had a removable cap.

 

It currently has the Cobra Le Mans valve covers that just don't match the look I'm going for. They are fantastic covers I wish I could just use them but I'm not sure my brain will let me. Definitely not running the yellow wires! Haha!

 

If you like the look of those but don't want the "Cobra LeMans" or any other wording on them, Ansen makes them in plain finned (and just about any design you can possibly think of on them). I've got a set of their plain polished covers on my daily beater F100....Oh, and they're made here in the U.S.A......I actually got mine for discount, because I called up and they sold me some that were display models.

https://www.ansenvalvecovers.com/collections/ford-valve-covers?page=1

 

When Ford added a PVC system to the FE in '63, they quickly found out that its less aggressive air changes compared to the road draft system promoted serious condensation issues leading to sludge build up in the heads due to its intake oil fill/PVC locations. These were also noted for rotting the top of the dipstick off because of the rust that caused. They had the same issue with the small blocks too. Not everyone would have this problem, where you lived made a difference. Warm dry climates, it could work. But if you lived someplace with high humidity and/or cooler temperatures, rapid sludge build up was the result. If you find milky sludge at the top of the dipstick, that's a dead giveaway.

So, in '65 they moved both to the opposite valve covers, pretty much curing the problem with the 'cross flow' ventilation this provided. The intake oil fill/PVC hung around for another couple of years, but only on the 427. I suspect that was because Ford had existing inventory of manifolds (or didn't want to spend the money for retooling considering the small number actually built), and most of them were destined for race cars anyway.

The later PI intakes can be machined for intake fill as they're cast for one, but I wouldn't do it. But if you have an oil fill intake and don't want to plug the hole and use the later style valve covers, what I would do is weld a small hose barb at the rear of each cover, take both to a 'T', then use an inline PCV valve to connect below a carb base. That will maintain ventilation at the heads.

I'm in the same boat you are. I've been collecting parts for a stroker FE for my '60 Sunliner and wanted to keep the round-top valve covers to maintain a 'stock' appearance (a 'sleeper'... ). But at the end of the day, I decided they're more trouble than they're worth...

 

Hey thank you for explanation! I think I've come to the same conclusion as you. They look amazing but I'm choosing function over form!

 

Those look pretty good! But if I were going that way I'd just leave the Le Mans covers. I'll probably get these from Drake.

 

Jeff pretty much summed up the options on early intakes . The later sidewinder intake you have requires machine work to make it a go
to install the vent or pcv

 

I have always been a big fan of the painted Ford valve covers but it's your engine. Do what you like!

 

Jim I agree with you but the PVC worked well it idle and high vacuum but not at power or low vacuum but the air rushing through the carburetor help vent the crankcase IE stage 2 PVC

 

My intake has a provision for a PCV in the rear. Just wouldn't have a fill or another breather.

 

The Sidewinder and PI intakes, while similar, aren't quite the same. Besides its offset carb mount, the Sidewinder could be found both with and without the oil fill (depending on when it was made), the PI never had the oil fill. The PI had a centered carb and two vacuum ports, the Sidewinder just one port. AFAIK, the Sidewinder was never used on a production car, it was an over-the-counter piece.

 

Mm(m) 2 much too see so I cleaned it up.

 

is there something going on with the frame? Looks crack-like.

 

I’m not 100 % sure about over the counter only . When I was a kid I bought a smashed 69 Cobra with 428 SCJ drag pac . It had the Snake Valve Covers and a Sidewinder that was painted blue . Car was purchased by the owner new and he said engine never touched . I don’t know if it came that way OEM or not , but it seems strange to paint over the counter intake . 175.00 for the complete car , the guts from it made my 67 Fairlane , badest in the valley .

 

Somebody was funnin' you. All of the CJ/SCJ cars came from the factory with cast iron intakes, not aluminum. It was basically a cast iron copy of the PI intake. Ford had a good reason for doing that. They had found out by then that the floor of the exhaust crossover chamber under the runners used for heating would corrode seriously, to the point of leaking, on the aluminum versions. Ford replaced more than a few under warranty and that's the main reason they're hard to find today. Ford had no desire to repeat the warranty issues with the CJ motors and had already discontinued the PI intake in any case.

If you have an OEM PI intake and are running OEM heads, it'll probably be a damn good idea to block the heat risers in the heads to prevent a repeat of this. I'm using aftermarket aluminum heads, they don't have 'em so I'm good to go.

A quick tale.... In late '68 I'm at my favorite wrecking yard looking for a part. The owner takes me into his back room and starts rummaging around. I look around and see three FE 4V intakes painted black and they look like high risers (PI intakes, but I didn't know that at the time). I go over and pick one up... It's aluminum! I thought I'd found the holy grail!! The owner sees me and I ask 'Are these for sale?'. He smiles at me and says 'Sure kid'. How much? $10 each he says. I'll take all three! He says 'Hold your horses...'. He comes over and flips them over and all three are rotted out underneath. 'They're no good, I won't take your money kid'. If only I knew then what I know now.... I should have bought 'em anyway...

 

Sooo, you are telling the guy that he should set the engine up for extensive oil leaks rather than have a proper crank case ventilation system?
You sound like the teller when those guys having problems show up on FB and say "I was told now I have problems with_____" How are things going down at the spit and whittle club these days?

An engine run on the street has to have a proper designed crank case ventilation system of one sort or another or it is going to build pressure in the crankcase and blow that pressure out at the point of least resistance. Even later valve covers with a breather on both valve covers and no PCV valve do not work to properly vent the crankcase as it will blow oil film out of both breathers and my personal engine is proof of that from the mid/late 70's when I thought I was cutting a fat hog by running aluminum valve covers with breathers on both sides. Nothing to draw the pressure or fumes out and only blown out the breathers getting an oil film over everything was the result.

 

Maybe you should re-read his post instead of jumping right to being an asshole.

 

...apparently sarcasm wasn't taught in his school...

 

Speedway do some older looking ones that dont look like they’ve fallen off a Mustang.