As If You Didn't Hate The LS Enough Already...

Kind of the same thing with many old motors that we work on..........only cheaper.

 

That would be understandable if we were picking up 300K motors, but most of us are not. If I dropped the big bucks and bought a 50K motor, I'm not expecting it to be a pile of dung at 60K, I'm at least expecting it to last at least until 150K (as long as I'm not beating the **** out of it). Unfortunately, that is no longer the case with the modern motors.

We are buying motors that should run 300K that have 100K or 150K on them, and many are not making it another 30K miles.

Back in the 50s & 60s the motors had a life expectancy of 75K - 85K, but it was expected that a motor with 1/2 the usable mileage on it was still good to make it to the 3/4 life expectancy.

From the late 80s until the mid 2010 era, the expected life of the motors made it up into the 200K- 250K and used motors were expected to survive until they exceeded the 3/4 range.

I'm betting the hard reality is, there are probably a higher % of motors built today (built since 2014), that are not making it much past 100K then there was back in the 1980s. Maybe those that do survive past the 100K and going 300K, but I'm betting that is not an accurate life expectancy of the modern motors. The life expectancy is the average life of the full number of the motor size built, not what the exceptional motors made it to.

Back in the old days, there were ways to determine, with pretty good accessory, which motors were the "good" motors and which were not. Today there is no viable way to determine if the motor you are looking at is a "good" motor or a "time bomb" about to explode.

The LS seems to be the tip of that spear point.

 

Gene-koning, very well said. It also seems to me like the older engines had more meat on the bone when it came to a rebuild then the modern engines do now.

I wasn't worried about a rebuilt V8 twenty years ago as much as I am with today's V8s. Something is definitely wrong.

 

I do not believe i could hate the LS any more than I already do but you bring up some good points.

 

This is a 10 year old build from Sloppy Mechanics. He pretty much revolutionized the whole cheap LS horsepower thing, and now there are thousands of cars like this on the roads today. He gives away all his information, tune files, etc.

This is one of many of his builds, and this one made 711hp to the rear tires.

"2003 5.3, china studs, stock head gaskets never removed, pac1218 springs, 2 inch reiners forward facing hotside, truck manifolds, S476r Billet V3 wheel turbo from forced inductions, swapped rear gears to 3.15s, ran 235 radial tire, same 80e, circle d converter, etc

car went 9.68@145mph foot brake 1.58 60ft on the launch, 19psi, pumpgas and meth

car has been running and driving on stock 2000 silverado 2500 pcm and a PSI conversion harness, 3bar OLSD operating system tuned by myself, and a EFI source 3 bar map."

https://sites.google.com/site/sloppywiki/sloppy-builds/fairmont-3-0

 

My argument isn't about horsepower or torque. Clearly these engines can take horsepower and torque. My argument is about longevity.

Tony Angelo has several episodes of his show on YouTube where he gets 500hp from LS engines only for them to rod knock a few weeks later. That's too much money for too short of a return in my opinion.

 

Lots of good info in here. I wouldn't mind building a carb'd 6.0 for an Apache.

 

Hating on the LS is based on irrational emotion , not logic and reasoning. Had I known about the LS, when I put The "traditional" SBC in my C1, I would have. It would have drove the purists mad...not just the NCRS geeks, but the period correct nerds.

 

I just drove my Tahoe to town to run some errands. Man, is that 5.3 boring....

 

Jim
The 5.3L in my Yukon is boring also, but the tuned 5.3L in my 1980 step side is an absolute blast.
No matter what I did to the dog 80's 350 to pep it up it was still a dog and got 9 to 10 miles to the gallon in town or on the highway.
With my foot out of the 5.3 I get 14 to 15 in town with a mild tune and a lot more fun to be had if the tune is more aggressive.
I like it.

 

Tony Angelo doesn't know what he is doing. He copied Sloppy Mechanics with the "Bone Marrow 10 seconds for $10k" and utterly failed for the whole world to see. In the video I posted above, that Fairmont probably has less than $3000 in it, clicking off 9's, running to and from the track, doing burnouts with a finger out the window.

As far as reliability and longevity, when was the last time you saw an old square body GM truck with a SBC with over 200k miles without ever being opened up? Drive for 20 minutes through your local town and you'll p*** 20 late model LS powered GM trucks with over 200k that are still on the same spark plugs, coolant, belts, etc. that have never been opened up.

If the SBC was superior, why did it go away? Because technology. Catch up or get left behind.

 

You two think you've got me, and you're proving my point. I never said the SBC is greater, but it is certainly better in certain applications.

The LS is a mystery to most people in this community. This is an engine where what you don't know will hurt you. You two are proving my point because you're saying what I said in a different way:

In order to get one to work right, you've got to know what you're doing.

I own an LS and several SBCs. I'm a fan of both engines. What I am saying is going into the LS, I had no idea what I was doing. Clearly what I am saying is neither do most people. This is a situation where the SBC is better. If you know basic engine mechanics, you can get the SBC to work for cheap.

The LS can also be made to work, but you've got to know what you want going into it. Most people, including me, do not and did not think about it before we buy one for our collection. This will cost the novice thousands and chances are they will still be nowhere close to running the LS.

My observation is for all the talk with the LS most people do not know what they should about these engines to make them work for their applications as easily as the SBC works in all applications.

 

If you really want to be helpful with information on the LS, post links to great LS machine shops. Post links to articles concerning effective rebuilds.

You say it's the best. Put your money where your mouth is.

 

I vote to be left behind. Isn't that the whole point of the HAMB?

 

Trust me: it took me a long time to warm up to the SBC much less the LS. One day it just dawned on me: if the guys from the '50s and '60s trusted them enough for their hot rods, why am I fighting the SBC so hard?

That was enough change for me to last a decade...

 

Nobody is trying to "get you". You created this thread with the question "what are your thoughts?". Thoughts and opinions are shared, but I'm not going to argue for the sake of arguing. It seems your mind is made up on the subject, so I'll let it be.

 

My mind isn't made up. That's why I started the thread. I don't want to chase you off. I'm asking you to contribute more.

If you can provide the articles or the links you've been talking about, I'd like to see them because I want to learn more. I'm asking for your help and ***istance.

Make me a believer...

 

No matter what engine you start with, parts are going to need to be replaced. its a used engine.

Unless you're beating the **** out of it, you probably won't have an issue. but again, that goes for all engines. I have a vortech sbc in my 1997 2500 tow pig, it just p***ed 355,000 miles and has never had more than an oil change.

Starting from the bottom, It's an engine, short of the cylinder DOD things mentioned above, its just another motor. if you can rebuild a SBC, you can rebuild an LS. and if your local machine shop can't figure out how to machine one, I wouldn't be taking any other motor I owned there either...

The main thing that gets everybody is the wiring, but I've watched my buddy pair down stock harnesses and get LS' running and driving for practically no money. there are a bunch (I just looked) of Youtube videos showing how to do that, but if that still freaks you out, you can buy plug and play stuff from holley, and even speedway!

When I started my rambler project, I looked at an LS as an option because it would be hidden under a hood. but it got beat out when I got given a sbc 305 for free. with a two barrel Rochester, and a power wire to the coil and starter, it will easily get 15-18 mpg and be simple.

In my opinion if you want a standard easy reliable motor that can look good in an open hood car, I feel like the aforementioned late vortech sbc gets slept on alot. I picked up a fully machined (30over/decked/checked/cleaned) example off marketplace for $500 and it had factory provisions for a roller cam. so I get modern durability with an old school look.



hell the first sbc I built for the car was a JUNK motor we BEAT the pistons out of.
still did 10,000 miles with a dingleball rebuild.

I find LS motors interesting, but useless in most of the cars I build, due to the lack of hoods.

But the reliability is the same as any other motor, based heavily on the money spent and the way you drive it.


.

 

You are blaming the LS when you now say that it is a lack of knowledge about the LS engines and not the engines that are the problem! It seems that most people just don't like the looks of the LS because it isn't traditional looking.

 

Ekimneirbo, you get the golden star my friend. Thank you.

I have an LS. A 5.3l LM7 actually that is reported to have 107K miles on it. It's complete, but I can tell that it came from a vehicle that was in a crash.

I've not wanted to move forward with it because I keep seeing the horror stories of guy's rebuilding them only to wipe out the cam bearings and the rod bearings after a couple of hundred miles.

That scares the snot out of me.

I want to be able to look at a LS with the same confidence I have with a SBC, but I just don't know enough.

Keep posting information. This is helpful.

 

I like keeping carbureted cars carbureted, but I wouldn't mind stuffing a LS into something like this. Twenty years old. Never could afford one brand new.

 

Now your getting nasty!....
I own a 2019 GT/CS.... I'll keep mine 100% Ferd..

 

As far as longevity of LS motors, I am amazed. Reason: when I retired I worked as a driver at a large auto auction in Twin Cities metro (MN). All vehicles had to have mileage on the window sticker when they came into the ring. Virtually the only vehicles with in excess of 400,000 miles were LS chevy trucks. And many, many with 300,000 plus. And they drove just fine.

 

The LS doesn't have provisions for a regular distributor in it.... If it did, then maybe I'd give in....

 

Oh you opened a can of worms Dueces
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-851000
personally I don’t like the looks of LS engines, however it’s hard to argue with the potential said engine has. Any engine can be converted to a distributor and carburetor, maybe a LS would look better this way not sure. It’s all hot Rodding , just not traditional
Dan

 

The only way to truly learn is to dive in and put an LS into something. If it works, enjoy it and upgrade along the way if you feel the need to. If it's broke, fix it. You'll quickly find out it is much easier to work on that any older V8. It's literally like 6 socket sizes and you've got the whole thing apart in 30 minutes with a cordless driver. You can swap Gen IV rods & pistons into a Gen III with no other modifications. Re-use the rings and bearings if they p*** a quick visual inspection. Swap the camshaft with the lights off so as not to scare yourself with how the cam bearings look and let it eat. On an engine stand, a cam swap takes 45 minutes for me, it's so easy. No reason to blow apart a perfectly good engine for a rebuild that it likely doesn't need.

I've got 4 Gen III 4.8/5.3 long blocks as spares that I've picked up so cheap over the years it's stupid. I've sold some of the accessory drives and intakes off them and that made the 4 engines basically free. If Uncle Rodney comes knocking because I put too much boost through one, I've got back ups. They're cheap.

Stay away from the magazines and the big YouTube channels for information. They are sponsored shills and talking heads. Find the smaller channels where the electrician or truck driver is learning as he goes or pay attention to the build series type videos where they ramble on for hours about the issues they've faced and prove their results without bias towards an aftermarket brand.

There are literally thousands of people out there with no high school education and no previous automotive knowledge that are throwing LS engines into all sorts of vehicles with nothing more than a 30 piece hand tool set, and a grinder and welder from harbor freight. If they can do it, I have faith in you.

 

I see nothing ugly about the LS...1000HP on pump gas

 

Bet you would still use points?

Ben

 

Texas******** and ekimneirbo, you guys are awesome.

Let me ask you a question: do you prefer the MAF system over the MAP only systems? I see people eliminating the MAF, and it's never made sense to me considering exactly what you explained, ekimneirbo.

I'm thinking that if the MAF is eliminated that the engine will run rich and foul out spark plugs.

 

I'm also NOT into 1800 watt Revlon hair dryers.....