Groucho, all of your points are valid, but I still think you are comparing apples to oranges, Your car that went 11.70's was set up to run like that. Light car, rear suspension that probably worked good, and a small block. Like I said I think it is doable but it is going to take some work. Trust me I am all about fast hot rods, and I have researched it for years about how to get these old motors to run hard. With the numbers you have laid out, it makes sense, but in the real world with vintage stuff I think it changes. If Skratch was saying I am building a small block to go in the 12's we could click off recipes in five minutes of what he could do to make it run good. But with the caddy motor the recipes are not quite there. The reason being is technology. Like I said the motor in my 32 is a built Olds, Isky cam .490 lift, 10:1 compression, ARP rod bolts, it is a good engine but not enough to push the car in the 12's. I am not being a naysayer, I just think it will be difficult and costly. Jimmy White P.s. I think the stock 331 made around 200 hp stock. I could be wrong though, I dont have my motors manuals at home with me.
Agreed. Like i said it's all a guess/speculation, etc. It'll be fun either way. I threw the Anglia story in the mix just for the WEIGHT factor. Also another apples to oranges story. My 54 caddy ran *****en for what it was and it was heavy for sure. I remember years ago one of the magazines took a 70's (?) Caddy and ran it at the drags. Terribly slow, smog motor piece of ****. Then they started cutting it up. If i remember right first it was bolt on stuff (front clip, doors, etc), then seats, carpet, gl*** and whatever else. Then, i think they cut the WHOLE rest of the body off til it looked like a ****ing dune buggy. I think it ran 12's. just another mutt motor with a LOT of weight cut off it. If memory serves, they never touched the motor
I looked in a book today and a stock 1949 Cadillac series 62 ( you know the light one, 3400# ) went from 0-60 mph in 13 seconds and was capable of 100mph. Produced 160 bhp and had 7.5:1 compression. In the 50s that was a Hot Rod motor. Like I said, you can do it, but you have got to over come a lot. Jimmy White hit the nail on the head. The recipes are there but you can't get the ingredients.
Dude, Like I said I am not trying to be a naysayer, or a ballbuster I just know the work involved. My 55 caddy runs pretty hard it has a Clay Smith re-grind R.V. style cam with a new Carter A.F.B. carb. It runs pretty good though. Groucho I have to say I think with your background, and your help Skratch stands a good chance of doing it!!! Nothing against Skratch but I know you have more of a racing/street racing background. Jimmy White P.s. Let me know if there is anything I could do to help.
Thanks for the offer to help, and i value the advice/opinion. I don't think you're a ballbuster at all. This truly is unchartered territory for me for sure. But, i'm sure willing to try. Maybe we'll put the Caddy valve covers on a small block Chevy. OOHHH........ just kidding guys!
Skratchy... The heads are all interchangible. You've just got to run the rockershafts and pushrods from the later heads. The 390's are snappy... I believe they had a 10.25 or 10.50 compression from the factory, so the heads dont need much of a milling. Cams are all the same, water pumps are all the same... distributors and mags are the same from 55-62. A 63 390 is a completely different beast. Intakes are the same 49-62. I'll send you all your **** either tomorow, or monday. I think I've got everything. I wanna wear those hollywood shades on my date tomorow night.
I have had nine early cadillacs, they have great engines. I am running a 59 cad in my modified. I saw some specs on a 390 with a 365 crank it strokes the engine to 412 inches. I hope that helps Good luck with your project.
I'm runnin a '59 390 in my A coupe. 2.02 stainless intake valves, 1.74 stainless exhaust valves, Edelbrock CA-6 intake with six stomberg 97's (and yes, they all work), bored 30 over so it's bumped up to 396, compression bumped up to 11:1 (stock is 10.5:1 for a 390) cam is a Howard's regrind..hydraulic 510/310 cam...Howard's is out of Oshkosh, Wi and the regrind cost me 100 bucks...Vertex magneto...brand new from Vertex, sent them the distributor gear just like Noteboom said, along with about 600 bones...Wilcap adapter with a Turbo 400 with a B&M 3300 stall...and I'm putting a manual valve body in it over the winter...2" stainless zoomie style headers...the rear is '55 Chevy with unknown gear ratio (snagged the rear end for 100 bucks with a model a spring already mounted to it)...that cam rattles your cage and the car really rips...just look at this post that Mike Zenor put up a while back http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=121990&highlight=youtube+mystery+movie This is me driving and him filming....that was a fun day... My avatar is the front of the car...there are some other tricks that I've picked up over the years of dealing with these mills, but I don't know if they will work on the 331's....a 390 crank has connecting rod journals that are 1/8" bigger than a small block chevy piston rod...you can offset grind the crank 1/8" and have custom billet chevy rods made up, thereby stroking the mill 1/8" and also being able to run ARP rod bolts because now you have chevy rods...it's just having somebody make you up a set of Chevy rods that are 6.5" long that's the big kicker...it seems to me that if I remember right, my Hollander interchange book said that the roller timing chain and gear set from an early Corvette would swap out too, but let me check...one thing that you do want to do is if you're gonna run a 331 you need to get a 390 timing chain cover...modern style rubber crank seal unstead of that rope ****..and it bolts right on...any other questions, don't be afraid to hollar, I'm always willing to lend a hand...
Now were talking your car should go 12's high 11's no problem!! Your car rules dude.. I really like it. Jimmy White
Jimmy, now i'm confused. The car you comment on has "UNKNOWN" rear gear ratio, and 50(?) more cubic inches. Yet you think it goes right past Skratch proposed 12 second p***, and right to the 11's?
DAMN scratch, comin together REALLLLY nice.. this is by FAR the buildup im most interested in... its SOO damn cool..
I'll take you up on the bet. Loser pays the $50.00 to the HAMB Board. My stipulation: He uses the 331 block, and uses a multi carb set-up with antiquated 2-barrels. Scratch, I like the looks of your car, and love your choice in motors. I am looking forward to seeing the finished ride. Very cool idea. -Torr
i gotta do something with all the pictures i have of you.. i stopped jerkin off to them awhile ago.. just not doin it for me like they used to i guess!
not to many gooroo's on the old 49-55 caddys, the best heads have a casting no. 1472449 these have big ports and yalves about equal to the old 194 fuelies. the heads are on 58 series 62models and 59 and up 390's atleast to 61. these later blocks have a raised deck height. so the intake choices are slim. I have not tried this swap...yet
O.k Groucho you got me... I should have said that engine that Cadillac Kid has, could propel his Model A to those e.t.s. You can see by his combo he has spent alot of money, 11:1, 510,310 cam, 390 heads, turbo 400, etc. etc. I hope his car could go 12's. I think we both could agree with the proper gearing, and hooking up his car should go easy 12's. My coupe went 12.80 with 3.55 gears, a ch***is that does not work very well, and an engine that needed to be tuned a little more. I was kind of comparing his combo to mine and his engine is way stouter. but who knows he might blow the tires off and run a 14.50, But I think his car would run better that. Like I said nothing against Skratch or you, I was just using my experience with the olds motor we just built for the 32, its pretty healthy but I dont think the car would go 12's. Jimmy White
it's all good.there's reasons why i posted this.and between you,b*** and the grouch.i've learned alot..thanks i think i'm going to need someone eles wallet.
Yeah man, I didnt want you to take it personal. Sometimes over the internet things could get misunderstood. If there is anything I can do to help let me know. I like the fact that you are replicating that car, its a cool looking car. Good luck man. Jimmy white
Like Skratch says, it's all good. "I" don't take any of this personally. It's unchartered waters for me. EVERYTHING i've said/proposed is speculation. I know we've "cheated" weight off our street race cars years ago for substantial gains, but never dreamt of a package THIS light. Either way, i dig fiddle ****ing around with **** like this, and it's now a little more exciting with all the mixed feedback. Someone's taking me up on my $50 wager based on some dinosaur carbs and 331 block. 331 block-OK, dinosaur carbs-we'll have to define that a little better. These "junk" multiples on the traditional rods did make way for better mousetraps for good reason. It won't be a D.P. Holley, but i'm not sure what it "will' be. We'll definately "tune" this idea as we near completion to everyones approval, OK?
I just checked my Hollander Interchange book on the timing chains for a 390 Cadillac. They use the reference number 262 for the timing chain and gears for this mill. The GM part number for this set is #3704150. It interchanges with: Chevy 55-56 all 8 cyl. except Truck with 322 engine Chevy 57-58 all 8 cyl. w/early link type chain (except 348 and the truck 322) Chevy 59-60 P***enger and Corvette except 348 Chevy truck '59 series 6 w/8 cyl. 283 & 2BC Chevy truck '60 series 50 w/8 cyl. 283 It then says that their reference number 277 timing chain set will also fit. It list this as GM part number 37354111 and it's a late roller set. These are what it was originally intended for: Chevy truck '57-58 w/8 cyl. 283 Chevy truck '59 series 6 w/8 cyl. 283 & 4BC Chevy truck '60 series 60 w/8 cyl. 283 So, according to the Hollander Interchange Book, you should be able to walk into an auto parts store and order a roller timing chain and gear set for one of the above vehicles, and it should fit a 390 Cadillac mill from '59-60. My book only covers the years of 1938-1960, so '59-60 is all I can verify, but the timing chain and gear set is the same for '61 and '62 as far as I know. So then you'll have a roller timing chain and gear set for a 390 Cadillac. I hope this helps some of you guys out. And I wanted to say thanks to Jimmy White for the thumbs up on my car. That really means alot man...seeing your car in Hot Rod Deluxe #2 was a big reason why I started building that coupe, so getting props from you man is about one of the greatest compliments I've ever received. Thanks Jimmy...that really made my day...
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