As If You Didn't Hate The LS Enough Already...

The only way to truly learn is to dive in and put an LS into something. If it works, enjoy it and upgrade along the way if you feel the need to. If it's broke, fix it. You'll quickly find out it is much easier to work on that any older V8. It's literally like 6 socket sizes and you've got the whole thing apart in 30 minutes with a cordless driver. You can swap Gen IV rods & pistons into a Gen III with no other modifications. Re-use the rings and bearings if they pass a quick visual inspection. Swap the camshaft with the lights off so as not to scare yourself with how the cam bearings look and let it eat. On an engine stand, a cam swap takes 45 minutes for me, it's so easy. No reason to blow apart a perfectly good engine for a rebuild that it likely doesn't need.

I've got 4 Gen III 4.8/5.3 long blocks as spares that I've picked up so cheap over the years it's stupid. I've sold some of the accessory drives and intakes off them and that made the 4 engines basically free. If Uncle Rodney comes knocking because I put too much boost through one, I've got back ups. They're cheap.

Stay away from the magazines and the big YouTube channels for information. They are sponsored shills and talking heads. Find the smaller channels where the electrician or truck driver is learning as he goes or pay attention to the build series type videos where they ramble on for hours about the issues they've faced and prove their results without bias towards an aftermarket brand.

There are literally thousands of people out there with no high school education and no previous automotive knowledge that are throwing LS engines into all sorts of vehicles with nothing more than a 30 piece hand tool set, and a grinder and welder from harbor freight. If they can do it, I have faith in you.

 

I see nothing ugly about the LS...1000HP on pump gas

 

Bet you would still use points?

Ben

 

First, thank you for the nice response, I do appreciate it.

If your engine really only has 105K on it, I'd just install it as is if it runs ok. I'd get rid of the truck intake manifold because its ugly and maybe go with an aluminum aftermarket intake with a Holley fuel injection throttle body on it. That will allow you to control the ignition as well as the fuel. Move the coils down to the side of the block and route the plug wires upward between the exhaust runners. Then some nice valve covers. This gives you the ability to easily change some things and play with the injection if you want to. I'd suggest making a simple engine run stand and hooking everything up and get it running, then when you install it there should be few if any problems. I'd also suggest purchasing the book below (Amazon) as it explains in detail how to tear down and rebuild an LS. I'd also consider getting another book which is a very good basic explanation of Electronic Fuel Injection ......done in a manner for people who need to get the basics explained. It sounds "difficult", but you will find that its really pretty simple and once you grasp it, its much easier to quickly understand the things that make it work. Its pretty much about learning the names of the sensors and what they do.........most of them are obvious. Like "Throttle Position Sensor", it simply tells the computer how far the throttle has opened. Intake Air Temperature........a simple sensor just like an engine temperature sensor that tells the computer how warm or cold the air entering the engine is. MAF Sensor. Ahhh, a little harder....but its still simple. The MAF is Mass Air Flow. Its a sensor mounted in the incoming air intake and it measures HOW MUCH air is entering the engine. (So the computer now knows you just stomped the throttle pedal because the Throttle Position Sensor told it, and then the MAF told it more air is entering...........so the computer advances the timing and increases the fuel flow. Thats not hard once you get familiar with those sensor names.
One more thing, those sensors don't send computerized codes.............the computer takes your cars 12 volts and reduces it to 5 volts and sends it to each sensor. They do that because they need a consistent level of voltage to use for a reference. Batteries vary somewhat in the 12 volt range, but at 5 volts they can keep it consistent no matter what the battery does (within reason). Lets take the MAF sensor. The sensor simply has a small wire that is exposed to the airflow. More air cools the wire more. As the wires temperature changes it has more/less resistance to electrical flow. The computer simply reads how much voltage is flowing and computes what the engine needs. Most sensors operate on something similar........voltage not codes. The codes are all precalculated and stored inside the computer and you don't have to know anything about that stuff. With something like an aftermarket Holley, you simply tell the computer that you want more/less fuel or more/less timing and then see what happens. You can simply go back to the original setting if things don't improve.


Very Good Book !



There are other books available that explain this stuff, but this one is more grassroots.

Most aftermarket computer systems have very few wires to hook to the cars original wiring (4?). The rest of the wires are labeled to simply plug onto the sensor they go to on the engine. Best of luck to you on getting started with this stuff. If I can explain or help let me know. I'm not an expert, but I grasp the basics.

 

TexasHardcore and ekimneirbo, you guys are awesome.

Let me ask you a question: do you prefer the MAF system over the MAP only systems? I see people eliminating the MAF, and it's never made sense to me considering exactly what you explained, ekimneirbo.

I'm thinking that if the MAF is eliminated that the engine will run rich and foul out spark plugs.

 

I'm also NOT into 1800 watt Revlon hair dryers.....

 

Sure, why not????.....

 

Basically all OEM systems usually use a MAF. (there are exceptions but I think now a days all use a MAF.)

For those that don't know what a MAP sensor is.......its Manifold Absolute Pressure. Now don't get all skittery over that important sounding name. Basically most engines are naturally aspirated so they operate with a vacuum inside the intake manifold. BUT....some have turbochargers or superchargers so they have to contend with pressure inside the intake manifold instead of vacuum. For a naturally aspirated engine MAP is just an elaborate name to monitor the vacuum ....ergo a vacuum gage. (Now, I'm being very simplistic here but thats basically what it is.)

Map is not as accurate as a MAF, but it still works pretty well. I don't know how they do it, but from testing they give values to the vacuum readings while taking into account several other sensor readings. Tech people call them "algorythms" .......... Thats all done inside the computer way faster than you can blink your eye....waaaaayyyyyy faster.

So the point is that a MAP doesn't measure airflow, it just provides a vacuum reading that allows the computer to predict airflow .......while the MAF actually measures the airflow.

Virtually all AFTERMARKET systems use ONLY a MAP.

Some OEM systems use BOTH.............

If a MAF fails on a system that uses both, the engine will still run on just the MAP because the OEM included the needed info to do so. The MAP sensor is a small sensor and it just plugs into the intake manifold.

Read this twice and it will begin to stay with you.

 

MAF if you're running a basically stock or mild cam/header engine with a stock ECU. But even if you didn't have a MAF Sensor, you could have the ECU tuned to run just fine without the MAF. Eliminating the MAF is basically "Speed Density" if you're using an aftermarket ECU or adding forced induction to a stock ECU.

For example: My 5.3 was setup with the stock ECU and a stock harness when it was naturally aspirated. The ECU had a base tune in it to get rid of the antitheft (VATS), and compensate for a slightly larger cam with some fuel & timing changes. This was using a stock MAF.

Same engine, but turbocharged... I used a stock ECU that was tuned for the larger injectors and different fuel & timing tables for the boost, but no MAF needed, so it was a Speed Density tune in the stock ECU.

Now it's on a Holley Terminator X-Max ECU & Harness that doesn't have a MAF. It operates on a MAP sensor, so it is a Speed Density setup.

 

Hey if you’re gonna go traditional might as well use points
Dan

 

I've had a hard time figuring out where to place the MAF in order to make it work for my application. I'll post a picture later of where it ended up.

All this talk of traditional made me realize something: the first LS came out in 1997 in the Corvette. That means in three years here in Texas the DOT will consider the LS1 to be an antique.

The Gen III LS is already in classic status. Man, do I feel old...

 

Why not a chevy RO7 motor????.....

 

Never heard of it before. What is it?

 

NASCAR stuff.

 

Yep! Chevy has been using those since '08 I believe.... 960 ponies from a 358 ci motor.. With 12.5:1 compression..

 

But it’s not a production engine?

 

No....

 

Good post TexasHC. Let me expand the explanation for some of those people who may be picking up some info here for the first time. Hope you don't mind.

When THC mentions "Speed Density", its just a name that identifies the fact that its operating off a MAP sensor . Map Sensors are available in various configuretions that are identified as 1Bar or 2 Bar or 3 Bar. 1 Bar is whats used in a naturally aspirated engine and the higher numbers refer to whats needed if you pressurize the intake manifold by using a supercharger or a turbo charger. Pretty Simple huh? Engineering types refer to the air around us as barometric pressure of 1 . Inside an intake manifold they have a vacuum and the pressure is less than the air outside the engine. Its simply the weight of the air with all the air above you pressing down on it......kinda like scuba diving where the weight of the water increases the pressure on you as you dive deeper. So, Speed Density is just the "Name" they use to describe a system operating on a MAP sensor. If you use an aftermarket system it will most likely be a MAP system. I think there are a few high dollar ones that may have MAF capablity.

Base Tune.......that simply refers to the programmed settings in the computer as it comes from the factory. An OEM computer will have lots of other things programmed into it that aren't used or needed to tune an engine.

To tune an OEM computer, you have to buy a tool that lets you connect to the factory computer and pay for permission to access your computer, or pay more and have permission to access several or even a lot of computers.
You can save the factory tune (base tune) and create variations on it to improve engine power with no other modifications. OEMs have to comply with EPA crap and it limits what they can provide. You can override or change the engines parameters and gain substantial hp without ever changing a cam or putting headers on.

VATS........ This is Vehicle Anti Theft and is in the computer to prevent having it stolen. It often needs a special key or key fob to tell the computer you are the owner. Tuners routinely have this deleted when they buy a junkyard engine. Aftermarket systems don't have it.

It takes a little reading and a little experimenting to get familiar with the basics, but the bsics are not hard to understand when you break them down.

 

First: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Second: Operating RPM range

 

Here's my solution for the MAF on mine. I don't have a great deal of room in the engine bay. So at the time, this made more sense.

 

Some people reverse the intake manifold and curl up in the back. I have seen others just put a breather on the front of the throttle body and stick the MAF in between the breather and the throttlebody. The factory likes a straight length of tubing tho. Yours has a Maf . With no Maf, just a MAP which plugs into the intake manifold, the "just a breather might work fine. It depends a lot on the car being used and the room available. Do you like how it runs?

 

Thats gen1 R07 with a carb and a distributor. It would screw with people to see a chevy engine with a distributor up front like a Ford, lol. Current motors have gone to coil packs like the LS engines along with the throttle body and fuel injection setup. Those types of motors dont often come up for sale outside of the stock car world.

 

My worthless 2 cents on the LS debate, Ive always had good luck with them. I have had 2 LS1 4th gen Camaro's, a L99 (Ls3 with the DOD) and then our tow rig is a 5.3 that has been a little workhorse. Everyone of them would run circles around my small blocks if we really wanted to be worried about all out performance. My current 17 Camaro with its stock LT1 runs as fast/faster than my 33 Pickup with its built up small block and it weight half as much as the Camaro, while then also getting super gas mileage.

I agree the looks of the LS can be the real sore spot for rodders and I am one of those as well. I admit though if there is one area of a car I get extremely OCD detail oriented, its in a engine bay. Whether thats full decked out traditional hot rod with multi carb setups and proper amounts of chrome or being nut and bolt factory correct.

There are some simple things that help its looks, mainly just hiding the coil packs makes a huge improvement. Then if you can swap the stock car or truck intake for a carb manifold and run a throttle body to then put a normal air cleaner on it to make it look more like a traditional SBC.

Then if you like spending lots of money there is a whole company dedicated to disguising the LS and honestly the results are not that bad. To alot of us we would still spot it a mile away but most places you would show it off, people will never catch it.





Heck they even make intakes that look like the early Ram Jet or Flat Top fuel injection units if you want that vintage look and dont mind spending alot of money, lol.

 

I've never run it in this configuration. I found too many broken things in the wiring harness to try it.

I bought all the stuff to convert it over to carburetor a year ago until I find a fuel injection system I like, but then I walked away from it shortly after.

I'm trying to get the juices flowing again.

 

The problem is making them look like a first Gen costs a ton of money.

 

I think the key thing is to move the coils and to put an aluminum intake on it with a throttle body that resembles a carburetor............just kinda clean it up to replicate the older technology. Trying to completely disguise one to fool onlookers just doesn't really work. Those that know very little about engines won't know what was done, but anyone with some engine experience will immediately realize its not a smallblock. The equal spacing of the exhaust manifold runners is a dead giveaway, even if someone went to the time and expense to install a distributor. I'd just be proud of the fact that it's an LS and not try to actually disguise it........just maybe traditionalize it slightly if thats what suits ones tastes. I'm putting a 500 Cadillac in my 32 Ford, and its going to have electronic fuel injection. Some people will like the innovation and the smooth operation and be inspired to do something similar.......others will scoff and go looking for another car that they can itemize all the little details of nostalgic perfection and impress their buddies. Not gonna please everyone, but I'm not building it for them anyway.

 

My thing is the only reason I would entertain the LS idea is for the fuel injection reliability. I worry about the aftermarket stuff leaving me stranded. If the PCM goes out on the Holley systems, it's basically a grand to fix. The R&D spent by the big 3 far exceeds anything an aftermarket company can afford to do. I wouldn't buy an LS and stick an aluminum intake and Holley EFI on it....that's counter productive in my mind.

 

GM sells "stand alone" wiring harnesses, as well as there are several quality harness builders. (Speartech) They use all the OEM sensors and computer. You can also get a dedicated computer from GM or just get the proper used one and have it reprogrammed. The GM one will have tuning for whatever engine you choose, but you will probably want to have whatever computer you use reprogrammed if you built an engine. You might look at the "plug n play" stuff from GM. An aluminum intake (from GM) can be installed along with a proper throttle body that resembles a carb if the plastic intake and forward facing throttle body isn't what you want.

 

I'm familiar with Speartech and all of the stand alone stuff. That incorporates the factory fuel injection stuff. I am talking about the guys pulling off the GM intake and installing an Edelbrock and an FI Tech TBI. To me that is going backwards, if that makes sense.

These guys make some beautiful engines. Unfortunately, their website isn't current.
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L79 parts on an LS..............BLASPHEMOUS (is that a word)?