As If You Didn't Hate The LS Enough Already...

The "it is better to look good, than to feel good" mentality about the appearance of an engine is definitely counter productive. No one ever tried to make their 283 look like a Ford flathead-now there is an ugly engine...yeah, I said it.

 

MCjim I agree to a point, however a late model engine with a carb and distributor simplifies installation and doesn’t require a laptop and all the associated skill that goes along with it, looking better is a bonus! Also everybody has their likes and dislikes, our hobby would be boring if everyone had the same engine etc.
Did you say flat heads are ugly? - PM me I’ll get you hooked up with a good eye doctor lol
Dan

 

I think what this discussion has taught me is that the LS is great if you want an "easy" swap into fuel injection. If you're fine with a carbureted engine, the SBC is still the best option.

BigJoeArt pointed out that the perfect hybrid is the 350 Vortec engine that preceded the LS. It's a roller engine that can be made to look traditional. What's better than that?

 

A 327?

 

It's funny you say that. I have one of those, too.

 

5.35857 liters equals 327CI

 

yeah, but it's a 325, really...and that don't sound right!

 

You can get some of the "throttle bodies" that have circuitry inside. Myself I don't think that's good because it then is subject to all the engine vibrations. But that's just me. You can also get aftermarket throttle bodies that only allow air to pass thru them and the engine gets the fuel from individual injectors in each intake runner. (Multi-point) I like the multi point but then you have to deal with either concealing the fuel log or making it look ok......or just be proud of it. Depends on what is important to someone. Anyway, with the multi-point injection you get better fuel distribution and you are using basically all OEM components if thats what you buy. You can also get aftermarket set ups, but most still use the GM sensors. You can't use the multi-point with a roots supercharger because the supercharger requires some fuel hit the lobes for blower cooling. (Note: there is a way but I'm not going there)

The fuel injection cars of today are awfully reliable. Worrying about a possible failure, you are more likely to find the needed component (OEM) for fuel injection at a local parts store than for a carburetor or distributor.

 

Agreed. I just want to make sure that I use the GM components rather than Holley. They tends to have failures. When I start looking at buying something new, I google "Problems with XXX part." Usually you will find a forum that people are asking questions.

I base my decision off of how many people are having problems and how long these forums have been having the same questions asked, indicating that the problems have never been addressed by the mfg. I tend to over- research.

 

Agreed. That's the road I will probably head down.

 

"You can't use the multi-point with a roots supercharger because the supercharger requires some fuel hit the lobes for blower cooling. (Note: there is a way but I'm not going there)".

Killjoy... .
Opened *that* can of worms - may as well offer up a dissertation on the subject. . Patiently waiting... .
Bi-level FI, just like the funnys n fuelers...
Marcus...

 

Bingo!

 

To those traditionalists - if junkyard 5.3 LS engines were available in 1955, EVERY backyard rodder would run them. This forum pays homage to the rodding spirit of going as fast as possible on the least money - regardless of the name on the valve cover. The countless stories of pulling a LS out of the junkyard and adding a cheap turbo to make 1000 HP is EXACTLY in line with the stuff that was done in the 50’s. The difference is a half century of engineering. Long live the LS…. Until the next better thing comes along.

Random thought - do you think there will be “LS forever” traditionalists in our future? Will they argue over the “proper” appearance of the coils on the valve covers? LOL.

 

The “better” part of that is the fact that the heads on the traditional SBC flat out SUCK compared to even the worst LS. The basic architecture of the LS is vastly superior in every performance data point. Lighter, stronger, O ring seals, oiling, performance, availability, ignition, etc, etc…

This is assuming that we are hot rodders looking for the best bang for the buck…. If we are discussing “art”, then that’s a different conversation which is based on emotion and not logic.

 

I just bought another spare one (6.0) from a guy who removed it from his work van. He said it had about 300k on it and was still running perfect. I think he scrapped the van. Anyway he had changed project priorities and gotten a vehicle that already had an LS in it, so no longer needed this one. He said he was originally going to install it just like it was, because it still ran perfect. He did tell me that he had replaced the timing chain in the last few years and while he was in there, he put a new oil pump in as well. I plan to rebuild it though cause I want to stroke it. 408 cu in and an easy 550-600 hp with 9.5 CR and regular gas.........

 

Back when the ls1 came out in 1997 I was a huge fan of swapping one into an old car. In fact in like 1999 my first full custom model car I built that came out nice was a restomod 1970 Monte Carlo that I turned into a roadster and kitbashed with a 1997 Corvette model kit. Carefully cut the engine off the th400 and glued the ls1 in its place. Used the Corvette convertible windshield. Used the Corvette wheels and bucket seats. Then years progressed. And I had actual interactions with ls engines. Every time I touched or drove one I liked them less. Then the ls craze caught on with people spouting so much bs praise on them I got to where I have no intention of ever owning another lol. Sure they have potential but they are gutless down low. I've driven non VTEC Honda's with more off idle grunt lol. Not to mention they're dog ugly. I personally like opening my hood and liking what I see

 

And an added bit. We had an avalanche a couple years.. .. wasn't a bad truck. But not exactly impressive. I actually compared it to a buddy's 97 Silverado often as a way to bash the 5.3. both were z71s with 3.73s. 97 had a 350. 97 would set you in seat a little bit under slight throttle. Avalanche took a good bit of pedal to feel anything. 97 also got 2 mpg more than the avalanche despite having a real bed.

 

huh...I remember when my wife bought the 99 Silverado in Oct 98 (one of the very first 5.3 engines made), having to get used to pushing the gas pedal gently from a stop, because it would take off if I gave it the normal amount of boot that I gave the carb V8s.

But I did notice that when it downshifted at speed upon pushing the throttle, it didn't make the truck go faster like the big blocks would...

 

I was also comparing to a multi port vortec 350

 

Oh, we skipped right over those....

 

I figured it was the fairest comparison

 

Pretty much how drag racing started and was, well into the '60s...

 

But Jim, we were comparing smallblock to smallblock. Would a Stock 327/350hp have done as well as the LS did ? Thats a fairer comparison since the 5.3 is 325 cu in.

I went up in Indiana a few months ago and picked up some LARGE stones to build a small retaining wall for a flower bed. There were 77 stones @ 90lbs each......appx 7,000 lbs + the weight of a 16' trailer with a steel deck.....so about 9,000 lbs. Towed it 126 miles to my house..........and I only have the 4.8 liter (293 cu in). That's barely bigger than a 283 smallblock. It never wimpered or overheated, but the trailer had all it wanted.

A fairer comparison would be a Big Block 427 Corvette to a 427 LS-7 Corvette. The smallblock was a great engine for it's time, and still respectable today, but technology and evolution have provided an improved version of the smallblock. I still respect the smallblock for what it is and what it did for our sport, and they look great in old hot rods.............but have you ever seen anyone pull an LS motor out of a new car and replace it with a hopped up smallblock ? Someone somewhere has probably done it, but there will never be the overwhelming movement to replace new engines with smallblocks like the smallblock did in the past. I give it the respect its due, but I try to be honest about the merits of the LS also. Think about it this way........Chevy still dominates the engine swap of choice because of the LS, not in spite of it. If not for the LS, younger rodders would be swapping more Fords and Chryslers because the newer technology gives them an advantage over a smallblock.......but the LS ........like the smallblock Chevy has become the engine of choice for another generation or so..........

 

I've actually seen quite a few people yank an ls based engine from a truck and replace with a built sbc lol

 

I think there is a lot of truth to that statement. I did a search this morning for some "aluminum heads", figuring I might find a good deal on some aftermarket heads for an LS engine. It was loaded with "smallblock Chevy" aftermarket heads. I think most of the guys that actually race regularly are switching to LS engines and selling all their "go faster" stuff off the smallblocks. Go to Facebook Marketplace where ever you live and see if there isn't a whole lot of aluminum smallblock heads for sale. You will see a lot of stock LS heads for sale, or some stock but ported LS, but I didn't see ANY aftermarket LS heads on mine. So..........a goldmine find for smallblockers!

 

Saw this on the internet the other day.......now thats kinda what I like. Not really hiding that its an LS, just giving it a traditional looking theme.

 

What you said can be true........but you can bet all the young guys out there buying 5.3 liter engines aren't putting big bucks into installing them into their S-10s. Its just like any engine swap in that you have to understand how to accomplish the engine swap. You can bolt a non-computer transmission to them, like a 700R4 or even a turbo 350.
An intake manifold and carburetor can be bolted on, and you can buy an ignition box to make the engine run without a distributor. Rebuilding cost is about the same. A cam upgrade is no worse than a smallblock. Its a roller, but you can reuse the stock lifters and very little worry about ruining a cam and engine during breakin. Comes with roller rockers that can be upgraded with better bearings via a kit. They are better than stock SBC rockers....or either engine can use aftermarket roller rockers. If someone just wants a stock engine, and they got the ECM (computer) with the engine, they can get a harness for about $400 that will let them install the engine in their car with a few simple connections. Or purchase an aftermarket Holley (or other) EFI and its a simple hook up. The basic aftermarket EFI will have the wiring and the ECM and the throttle body for about $1200. It will "plug and play" and tune itself. You then have the ability to "tinker" with the air fuel ratio and the timing from the drivers seat. No jets or gaskets or accelerator pumps to purchase. I would suggest that anyone thinking about swapping an engine educate yourself by purchasing this book. This is an excellent book.

 

I've been diving into the LS thing the past few days, since I decided that it would be appropriate to put a crappy modern belly button motor in my crappy new Checker. And I could learn a thing or two. And go fast and get good mileage, while it's still working.

I'm planning a LQ4 6.0 truck motor from 2002, that's a Gen III engine. It has the tall plastic truck intake, aluminum 317 heads, iron block. They have 9.4:1 compression. The cam is a bit small for what I want to do with it, but pretty much everything else inside the engine I can use, even though it already has 150k miles. The engine cost less than a grand. It was missing the coils on one side, and the PS/Alt mount, but otherwise it has all the OEM stuff that I will need. I plan to use the Holley ecu/harness, like he said it's 1200 bucks and adds a lot of functionality over the stock computer that will come in handy to manage the turbo system.

It'll be fun to see how well it works, and how easily an old geezer can deal with all this modern stuff. I'll leave the hood on the car so no one will have to look at it.

 

I would recommend talking with a techie at Holley to decide which kit will work best for you as there are a lot of similar kits but small differences in which components may be the ones you want. You can change many things just by getting a short adapter harness. As an example, the Gen 3 has a 24x and the Gen 4 has 58 x wheel. Yours will be a Gen 3.....but on many of the Holley computers if you want to change, you just get the short adapter harness to plug in and the different sensor. I would recommend you get one that will operate the 4L60/4L80 transmissions even if you don't need it. That way if you decide to swap things to another vehicle you have that ability. It will be interesting to see how you fare and whether you like it. Summitt does have most of them on sale right now for about 10% off. You know there will be a learning curve. Also the price of a new carburetor isn't cheap these days compared to the EFI.

 

Used carbs still work pretty well, so I use them most of the time...it's amazing how fast you can go with a pair of $50 carbs with stock jetting

but when you get into something that needs to control fuel and spark under widely varying conditions, then a modern computer just can't be beat. That's the main attraction to me of the holley system.

I am split over the transmission controller thing...I agree it would be a good idea, but again, I can deal with old transmissions, and make them do what I need. It might be that I start playing with the modern ones, but I haven't had the inclination yet. And the EFI controller without the transmission stuff will also work with manual transmissions, so it's not like it's totally useless.