I won't tell anybody what to do, I still believe a man (or woman) can make their own intelligent decisions as an adult. But I will say this: I was a fireman and first responder for 7 years on the volunteer department in the small town where I'm originally from. We did the extrications with the "jaws of life" on all the car accidents in the area. I wear my seat belt every single time I'm in a car and add them to all my old stuff that didn't come with them. If you've seen what I've seen, you probably would, too....and if you choose not to, that's fine. I still like ya.
I'm sitting here reading this in a horrific back brace along with 7 broken ribs and 2 cracked vertebrae after being rear-ended by a F150 on the Interstate who never slowed for the construction site we were in. Never saw him coming. It was a brand new 2025 OT car, fortunately not one of my HAMB cars. Car's toast but without seat belts and a lot of other modern safety stuff, I would not be here at all. Buckle up, please.
I've installed lots of lap belts in cars over the years. I typically use the giant washers and shouldered bolts that they come with and *knock on wood* no car I've ever put them in has ever put them to the test. I never mount them to the frame, but I do like to drill the mount hole through a double layer of floor, like where a body brace meets the inner rocker or something. I like the idea of the weld-in plates that someone linked in this thread, haven't seen those before. I agree with the need to mount them so they actually have the correct angle for safety and comfort. If the belts are uncomfortable, the occupants will be less likely to wear them!
Here's some photos of the 3 in. wide seat belts I installed in my '40 Ford. Be sure TO NOT accidently drill any holes into your frame or mufflers. DOUBLE CHECK MEASUREMENTS BEFORE YOU DRILL ANY HOLES to make sure your belts are long enough to accommodate the seat adjustment travel and still fit around the driver and passenger. Best to buy longer belts. Do a mock up using clothes line taped to the car floor to estimate needed length. If you come up short, you can buy seat belt extenders. Keep your buckles to the center of the seat so they don't hang over the edge of the seat.
I installed belts in my stock 31 Model A, mostly to keep us in if a door opens in a turn. If it gets hit hard, bolts to the body or frame probably won't matter much.
Oh my goodness! NEVER bolt seat belts to your frame rails. Seats and Seatbelts: What to Bolt them to? | The H.A.M.B.
My friends and I scratch built a Bearhawk 4 seater airplane. We live near an airport where the aviation company flies a fleet of aircraft for forest fire spotting for the government. They let us use their shop equipment for cutting and bending metal. We needed seat belts for the seats. They had to replace seat belts in their aircraft every 10 years. They had a couple large boxes of seat belts and told us to help ourselves. Only the front seats of spotter aircraft are used. We got seat belts that came from back seats that were basically new with no indication of being used. The belts had the plain brush chromed finish and were perfect. I would use them as they have a very vintage look. There may be an opportunity to pick up good belts from a local aircraft maintenance facility.
Maybe Ford didn't know back in '51 but the front seat is bolted to the frame, I think the first year they started to bolt to frame which is just another body mount except with studs and nuts to hold seat.
I know of a driver who suffered massive internal injuries [fatal] from the seatbelts when the cage/harness/frame separated from the body/seat/driver. [caused by the car collecting a tree behind the drivers seat at high speed] In this case ^^ the body split in half and the shoulder harness was attached/anchored to the rear half.
Here's a bit of reading for you all. The NZ govt has quite strict seatbelt laws [compulsory on cars manufactured after Jan 1st 1955] They recognise factory specs, but there is a grey area between 1955 and 1961 where a lot of cars never had factory fitted seatbelts. So the got together with a few engineers and set the guidelines to retro fit seatbelts that meet modern standards [I have them fitted in our 57 Chevy] here is the engineers handbook [47 pages long] https://www.lvvta.org.nz/documents/standards/LVVTA_STD_Seatbelts_& Seatbelt_Anchorages.pdf
@5window - Holy cow! Glad you made it out of that alive. I hope you recover fully. Your brand new car is now scrap metal.
Before you decide whether or not to attach your seat/belts to the frame or body, think of a tube of toothpaste. Then mount them securely to the body.
Seatbelts without shoulder harnesses is a waste of time. Without shoulder harnesses the steering wheel and dash are gonna hurt you.
thanks everyone. I know these old cars aren’t safe and I drive them as if I’m driving a motorcycle. Very defensive driving required. Anyway, I know a seat belt won’t do much in these cars but it’s more about not falling out of the door opens on a turn. I’d like to cruise with my kids and telling them “don’t lean on the door” isn’t trustworthy. Yes, my latches and everything are fine and I have not had a door open on my ford but I have had it happen on other old cars so it always worry’s me. Oh and I do NOT plan to use leather belts (someone mentioned that above).
The same "B" pillar mount in your coupe has a body mount hole for the tudor ; I'm going to install a "bridge" for mounting the seat belts between the 2 tudor body mount holes. I'm using 1x2 1/8 wall tubing. I will install 3 sets of belts as I have the stock bench seat.
For floor washers, I used some large and thick front end washers for under the floor. Avoid anything square. The corners can tear through the floor in a bad wreck.
Mandatory down here for all modified cars. Closed cars require 3pt restraint (Preferably retractable on outboard seats), 2pt restraints on inboard seats. Open cars (Roadsters / phaetons) require 2pt restraints. All mounting points need to meet DOT (Engineering) requirements. I was able to use bosses welded to frame and protruding through floor in my 35 tub. My 46 Olds required inboard floor mounting plates with similar under rear parcel shelf. I also added rear child restraint mounting points for the grandies. Examples from Vehicles Standards bulletin (National Code of Practice).
I got mine from RacerDirect.com. They sell all sorts of belts and they are US-made. I get the ones with the old-fashioned military type of buckling system.
Sorry if it's been said already... I will be using these seat belt anchor plates from Julianos. Summit et al. sell their versions as well.
I used third row seats out of a Caddy Escalade. These have a full shoulder harness and they fold up and out of the way. The brackets are heavier gage than they need to be but that’s what I had on hand. Three of the mounts are through the floor and one does tie into the frame. After reading this thread I think I’ll change the one to grab just the floor structure. Rides like a Cadillac and even though the color is horrible (for now) they are practically brand new. If you like this idea you have lots of options. The Caddy’s have buckets and the Suburbans have a bench and these things are plentiful and cheap. I think I have two other sets that I found and couldn’t pass up.
One of my former clubmates (and now an emeritus member here) was involved in a nasty crash, absolutely not of his making, which took his life. I contacted my local "police crash guy" and asked him for the details as we are 500 miles away. My police crash guy covers the fatalities in this part of the country, but rang his counterparts in that part of the country. The short version was that the other driver was overtaking, on the wrong side of the road, on a bridge and the early 60s Nova took a head on hit. Lap belts werent enough to protect the driver. The other comment made was that if he has shoulder and lap belts, then the crash was quite possibly survivable.
My bucket was a street/strip deal that, in all honesty was a pretty hopeless street car, but a great deal of fun. I had lap belts attached to the chassis and they sat under the seat, and only ever came out when the car went for its "warrant of fitness" checks which were once every 6 months. I never actually used them when driving on the road. I always drove around with the 5 point harness which was attached to the 6 point cage. It just felt way safer to me. Original plan was to remove the cage when not racing and to use the lap belts. It never happened. I eventually snotted it into the concrete wall at Meremere Dragway, and I walked away. Im a big fan of lap/shoulder seat belts in hot rods, even if they look a bit out of place.
Fitting shoulder belts to 50s/60s pillarless cars can be a challenge. There are some bucket seats on the market (which are way heavy due to their heavy internal framing) and come with the seatbelts built in. No doubt there will be rules around mounting them, but they are another option which could save your life.
Those are really good They are designed to deform the floor instead of tearing the sheet-metal. So do not weld around the edges, but maybe a couple of spot welds closer to the bolt. On my race car I used Bostik ISR 70-03 to glue mine to the floor underneath [this exceeds FIA specs] But our govt has the own regulations When there is shear loads on the bolt, one end of those plates will lift up and the other end will bend down [see-saw effect] If you sandwiched the floor between 2 plates..... When there is shear loads on the bolt, one end of the bottom plate will deform up, while the opposite end of the top plate deforms down. Doing this and the plates can be located with a couple of monel rivets. Here is how the plates are installed in our 57 Chevy. underneath On top [inside] Our govt is tough on seatbelts , and specifies a minimum area [40 sq cm] and a minimum radius for the corners. By using Govt spec mounting plates , we don't need to weld them.[they are a cheap off-the-shelf item] Our B-pillars mounts have a min and max height ,so I copied my Falcon as a trial fit [using 2 sided tape] What sits nicely on my shoulder in the Falcon, cut across my neck in the Chevy. The reason is we sit further away from the doors in modern cars [much closer in the Chevy] so be aware of this if using inertia reels. Locating the B-pillar plates in the Chevy required some thought, but I managed to do this easily without any paintwork needed. If it was a race car I would do things a bit different. But this was to comply with NZ LTSA regulations. Edit: I'd like to add that my Race Car [Ford factory built for SCCA Grand-Am Racing] never had any seat belt anchor points or evidence of them. On the floor they simply drilled holes and used a nut and spring washer. [they were pulling through for G-forces against the driver] So I upgraded this to FIA compliant anchor points. which is easier than arguing with a tech inspector [and my ass was on the line]
If you are okay with dying, that is your right. Your family might not be okay with it, and neither will the other person in the accident. You might not be interested in preventing your own death, but it is too much to ask a stranger to have to live with accidentally removing you from this world, in a minor accident, when you could have prevented that.
It’s easy to run up a virtue pole when safety comes to mind but remember that many will have such hardline comments about helmets or even about riding on a motorcycle at all. It’s interesting that none of the above prevent accidents at all yet driving behaviors be damned. I’ve even been scolded for cycling on roads and running on my 50+ yr old knees(actually far more than car safety.) I assume we all use our seatbelts but not having one does not automatically mean an accident and subsequent death. Our old plane has only lap belts so to many “safer” friends it’s a death trap. Let’s argue a bit about ladders and chainsaw safety or about the carbs you chose to eat today! Lol Hope everyone is having a Happy Thanksgiving out there! D
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