As If You Didn't Hate The LS Enough Already...

What's your reason for wanting to use the Holley system over the factory ECU? The stock ECU will easily handle anything you want it to do, and it will control a 4L60E or 4L80E transmission.

 

If I had the factory ECU and wiring, and an electronic transmission, then I'd probably be thinking that way...

but mainly, the problem is figuring out how it all works.

 

Well, they Holley Terminator X($1,300) system will run the engine, the Terminator X-Max($1700) system will also run electronic transmissions. Its a simple plug & play setup, but costly. For almost half the cost of the Terminator X, you could buy an aftermarket stand-alone wiring harness($550) and a stock junkyard ECU($50). Find a local tuner to unlock the stock ECU($300) and change a few settings based on what your setup is, and you're good to go.

 

Ok....when I've looked into how that works, you end up either paying a local tuner a lot of money over a long time, or you buy an HP tuners license for $500 and see if you can figure it out.

I just don't think I'm up to it. And I have the $1300 for the holley system.

edit: bonus, the holley setup has the small display that you can use for some of the configuration, but also to display stuff like afr, boost, etc so you don't need to get that extra instrumentation

 

@squirrel

Much of the time when someone buys an LS engine, the OEM computer and maybe a harness will come with it. If not, there are lots of computers available on Facebook that tuners routinely sell with the VATs deleted and a few other changes. Still, you have to purchase a program that will give you the ability to screw with the settings. There are some good things about doing this as once someone gets a little knowledge they can more cheaply convert other engines with the same tuning program. Starting out though, I think the Holley is a better starting point to learn from. Jim, I think you will actually find this to be much easier and interesting than you think. As I have said before, it's about learning the names of the sensors and components........it's like learning a new language, but there aren't really that many words. Most of the sensors have names that immediately tell you what they do.

Let me explain somewhat. In a carb, you had to learn about an "idle control circuit" and how to mechanically adjust it. With the EFI for your LS motor there are two basic options for controlling the throttle. The Gen3 is what you have. It will have a mechanical throttle cable to open and close the butterflies in the throttle just like a carb.

The idle circuit will be a small passage with a small plunger that controls "air" thru the small passage to allow the engine to idle.

There will also be an IAC (Idle Air Control) (see how obvious that is) sensor. It works just like a rheostat does in a million different electronic devices. Twist it one way and less voltage flows. Twist i the other way and more voltage flows. So they mount it on the throttle shaft and send a 5 volt reference voltage from the computer. Depending on how far open the throttle is, a lesser voltage is allowed to return to the computer. The computer then knows how far (what angle) the throttle has opened to.

With your trucks fuel injection, you have an injector placed in the intake manifold above each cylinder. The computer then pulses the injector to provide the correct amount of fuel to idle if it senses that the throttle is closed. (For clarity.....the throttle is not fully closed as it must allow some air into the engine, and it is also getting a little additional air thru the Idle Air Control)


IF someone purchases a Gen 4 LS engine, it will not have an Idle Air Control like the Gen 3. The Gen 4 uses an Electronic Throttle Control instead of the mechanical one in the Gen 3. This consists of a Gas Pedal that has electronic components that "talk" to the computer. (Talk is actually just a variation of the 5 volts being returned to the computer, not codes) With this type of set up, the computer just controls the actual position of the throttle blade to control the engines idle.

Now realize that the computer is also getting lots of other info from other sensors which allow it to co-ordinate the readings and give the engine the correct amount of fuel, air, timing. One such sensor is the ECT (Engine Coolant Sensor). If the computer sees the engine is stone cold.......it knows the idle will require more fuel at low rpms just like a choke does for a carb.

As you get more familiar with the new words/sensor names, it gets easier. That doesn't mean that some stupid unforseen problem won't happen and cause you to curse the thing, but generally as you learn more about it, you end up liking it. I'm not an expert on this stuff, but anything I can do to help anyone.....I'll be glad to do.

When purchasing a Holley kit, be aware which type of throttle control your engine uses.

 

Thanks, I already knew all that...I've worked on stock EFI stuff for over 30 years, just never got into tuning them.

I mostly have been building traditional old stuff because it's simple, cheap, and it still works as well as it ever did. Instead of having to turn all the information into 1s and 0s and then have a computer process it and then turn it back into a mechanical action, the good old carburetor and distributor magically do all of that with just a few moving parts and springs and orifices. Being someone who thinks that good engineering means removing parts, I tend towards the old ways of doing stuff.

Now I'm just wanting to go exploring something new, and the LS engine is what I'm getting into right now. Since I have a goal (taking a car racing at some events), I have enough motivation to put in the effort to learn more.

I've been looking over the Holley manuals that are available online. I've also been talking with some of my Drag Week buddies who've been doing this stuff for years. There's a lot of info out there! of course, sorting through it to find the right answer can take a while. Fortunately I know several people who can steer me in the right direction. I just have a lot of catching up to do.



(this is a fun picture I took the last night of Drag Week, hanging out in the hotel parking lot with the EFI guys. This was my 55 Chevy.)

 

Yeah if you don't want to deal with tuners or learning the stock ECU and what not, I feel the Holley system is a great platform to start with. You can get the Terminator X/X-Max without the 3.5" handheld digital display that way if you choose to want a larger display you can buy it separately and not have the little 3.5" sitting around doing nothing. I believe I mentioned it earlier in this thread, but Haltech also has a system very similar to the Holley Terminator X/X-Max that is a plug & play/self learning EFI system, I just don't know anyone using Haltech except like 2 friends with full blown race cars, so I have no experience with their stuff.

 

Also, one thing to note. The Holley Terminator X/X-Max doesn't control the charging system on an LS. They sell a separate harness, but there are far better versions out there like the one from Sloppy Mechanics that can control Alternator, or Flex Fuel Sensor, or both. It's a direct plug & play to the Holley Terminator X/X-Max. I'm running the Flex/Alt Combo myself.

https://www.sloppymechanics.com/pro...ternator-combo-harness?variant=31664402989144

 

I'm planning to use an older alternator. I think I have to build PS and Alt brackets anyways to work with the car, so I can just us a 10SI alternator and be done with it.

Guys are trying to talk me into E85...I sure see their point about being able to go faster with only a bigger fuel pump and injectors, a flex sensor, and some different tuning. But...I plan to build the car to be "fast enough" on pump gasoline.

 

The two biggest advantages to E85 are the price per gallon and cooling that is gained by using it. It burns a lot cooler and gives you more room for timing. Boosted pump gas, as you know, can be touchy if the timing isn't right or it is too hot out. E85 is overkill, you get your best results around E40 to E50. I'm gathering info to see if I can test at the pump and then do the math to keep it around E50 by blending.

Edit: Yours can be set up to adjust itself to the blend, so disregard the idea of blending to make sure you have a consistent E rating.

 

yeah, it does good things...

The cost per mile isn't really that different from E10, since you have to use almost twice as many gallons of E85 to drive the same distances. But when you're racing, the cost of E85 is way less than racing gas, so if you need more octane than pump gasoline can give you, E85 is a good way to go.

For the cooling effect, you can also set the AFR pretty rich (like 11-12) with gasoline, when under boost, and get significant cooling. I think this is basically a way to ensure that all of the holes are getting a sufficiently rich mixture, with typical cylinder to cylinder variations. So one slightly lean hole doesn't cause problems.

 

Racing may take 2X with E85 but the flex fuel car I drove only gave up 15-20% depending on the weather conditions. It was cheaper by a decent margin. With a turbo the air will already be hot, not sure how rich you’ll need to go to make up the difference. Since my roots builds heat, I was told to go from 2 750s to 2 850s with E85. So about 13% more carb for a 505 with 6-8 lbs of boost. But we’re apples and oranges with my roots vs your turbo.

 

I'm trying to follow what you are planning but I'm a little confused by what you have said. Are you planning to run a roots type blower on the 6.0 LS ? That will make a difference in which Holley system you need.

 

no, it would be turbocharged.

 

Mine is an intercooled single turbo 5.3 on e85 and I also have a water/methanol injection system that triggers under higher boost levels.

 

Well I have to admit that when you do something, you don't mess around just sticking your toes in the water.........

 

yeah, I figure I might as well try to go fast for cheap with the modern engines, since that's what they're known for.

 

Well my latest l.s project. Bone yard rescue of my uncles ranch. Built it to be my little parts chaser. Nice suspension. Good brakes txk 5 speed. 5.3 ls ac ps and through the muffers with zero tuning at this point into the 11s. Very mild motor.. labeled it a 289 and the vast majority think it really is. Lmao... the old guys are the worse always telling their buddies.... yep had one just like that back in the day... finished the car the night before( not a race car) and ran the 2024 redwood ralley. 5 days a track 1000 miles. Dead on reliable other then I hurt the tranny 1st day and was still able to run 11s. Fun little car.

 

amazing what a little sticker can do!

very clean, thanks for posting

The Redwood Rally looks like fun

 

Lol it amazing what the sticker does. I posted in a couple of ford in a ford only forums nothing but thumbs up and postive comments. I only had one guy call me out. Most of the l.s haters have no idea what they are looking at, zero experience and their arguments are silly for hating on. I get it old school is cool. ( I have some of that also) but their arguments are based in emotion vs what is. The l.s is superior to any old gm ford mopar small block period if performance reliability and low cost is the goal. All the same reasons the 9inch ford became so popular. Inexpensive and it works. Its fun to open the hood and sit back and listen to the comments. The vast majority of comments by the " expert" are wrong and the buddy with him just agreeing with him. My other l.s ride.. It get down the road just fine.

 

I have a5.3 LS sitting in an Avalanche. Wife wanted it because it sounds good. Someone put a stage 2 cam with no tuning in it. Ran OK but would have been better if tuned. Thing is so rusty it wasn’t safe to lift it to fix the ABS brakes. We were concerned it would break the frame from the rust through. I’m hanging on to it as a someday project transplant doner. They are cheap to make power in for a while. Just add boost and a controller.

 

I can see why the LS is so popular. I have been trying to stay all Ford on the 56 F100 build, but Ford goes out of their way to make it difficult. Their danged old front sump pans are a pain. I am doing a ton of research right now and it amazes me why Ford has never thought about the aftermarket. The 7.3 Godzilla is as close as they have come.

 

Beautiful car!

 

And they say the LS engines are ugly.............that's booootyful




Seriously though that is one of the finest examples I've ever seen for an LS installation and I appreciate you sharing something with us where mechanical execution is fine enough to be "artwork" IMHO . I bet when you go chasin parts, ain't too many of them that get away!

 

Jim you can also purchase a used windows 10 or 11 tablet on eBay for under $100 download the Terminator X software and use it to program or run a full gauge cluster that you customize. I got this 9 inch on EBay for $60.00
It’s easier to see than the 3-1/2 inch screen, and far cheaper than buying their 10 inch digital dash and smaller than a laptop. You can see the small gauge cluster icon at the top right, tap it after your program is downloaded and customize your own gauge cluster.
I also bought a mount so I could use it in the truck or take it out at any time. With a "Y"
cable you can run both.

 

Thank you

 

Thank you

 

@ e1956v More info please. Where to download software.

 

https://www.holley.com/products/fue...94Ah6mX5ysJBxgtWUKpG_HBj9_Fyc46_EiRltcFShj1gd