Projects 1940 Ford Coupe Resurrection, Tuesday Night Special, 303 Olds Taildragger

Your build is certainly a testament to your patience and perseverance. Keep up the good work.

 

Good looking metalwork. If you really want to work like Vile Kyle, you're gonna need a half-burnt flannel coat to wear in the shop. I think that might be his secret.

 

Nice work! Really looking good!

 

We love Vile Kyle's Hair Styling. I'm not allowed to watch without the wife, its a shared pleasure. Got my air compressor decorated with stickers and just added a Chicken Truck one (garage doors are be-stickered, too). Have shirts on order for her for X-mass, been slow shipping but they are finally on their way. Hopefully that means he is selling a lot of them. We have a friend who subsistence lives like him fixing computers from home and know Kyle could use the sales proceeds.

 

Back on the struggle of the right rear fender.....I have been looking for nearly 10 years for a good one under $500 and no luck. I had a reparable standard with some wrinkled and poorly repaired wheel opening lip damage and denting at the running board end. I also had this NOS sedan delivery only fender and had resigned to cutting it up for patches for the passenger car.

They have a totally different flange area and are skinny where the tail light would mount on a car. I had it advertised here, V8 club classifieds and on FB for almost 3 years with no interest. I figure that was enough time so went ahead with my plan.



I pulled it out of the basement and a few weeks went by before I could get to it and wouldn't you know I got a call from a well known '40 collector/parts man in North Carolina that wanted to know if I still had it. He was building a delivery and realized what he thought was a good right rear turned out to be a woodie fender witch also is unique and would not fit his delivery. He obviously wanted it bad enough to drive the 5 hours the next day and traded me for a good passenger car right rear. Its in bare metal, has had a small section each of the flange and area that the reinforcing attaches to on the lower edge replaced but is otherwise straight and ready to bolt on and go. I also got a new rescue pooch to keep my older rescue pooch company.



The kids had two weeks off for the holidays so I stopped working as well and made space in the second bay by putting my garage car outside to get going on the long overdue process of uniting engine and transmission. First step was to replace the pilot bushing which had a noticeable wear pattern in it. After lightly grinding free the staked in retainer I did the Play-doh trick using a socket extension wrapped with making tape as a plunger and a hammer to force both the retainer and the bushing out.


New quality bushing.


I guess you'd call this a flywheel and not a flex plate. But either way it has to be fluid sealed and there is a gasket between the crank flange and the wheel. The adhesive is Pliobond 30, it is a bit like rubber cement, snot like coloration and texture, very stinky. It has a decent working time and as I had figure out the orientation of the irregularly spaced bolts beforehand all went smoothly.


There is a big gasket that also gets Pliobond between the flywheel and the torus cover to seal in all the trans fluid that surrounds the torus. This is a big job getting it all aligned as you have to get the trans seated to the engine block and get the flywheel seated to the cover and 23 bolts in the cover/flywheel all before the gasket and pliobond dries out. I did a dry run first and then with the wife's help it was a snap. I pliobond-ed the flywheel and handed her the tub to do the torus cover while I put the gasket in place. We both pushed, poked and prodded the assembly together bolting engine to trans then each started putting bolts in place and rotating the engine to get all the bolts where they needed to be in the flywheel. She had done this before for her Pontriac so knew the drill and having two people made it so much smoother than it could have been with just one.

I was just going to push it to the side and call it a victory but the dolly collapsed under the weight so I figured what the hell, lets stick it where it belongs. Still a lot of fiddling, grinding and clearanceing to do but its in.



I put 2, 2x4's between the body and frame for extra space during install. With them removed there is just enough space but I need to make more to keep it from rubbing when in motion. The tail shaft is currently at 7* down and needs to come up about 2 inches. The rear is at 4* up (I set it at 3 but with the tail dragging stance it came up a bit). I had to take out the top of the CE X-member brace as it needs to come up more. I will modify it to be taller once the tail height is set. It will also need a taller tunnel than stock and a custom trans cover so good thing I have yet to do either.


Next job is probably running brake lines, I fit the stock pedal and it clears just fine till at the bottom of the travel it just kisses the bell housing, so a little heat and bend and we are good. Fuel tank and lines, assemble engine top end, exhaust, shocks front and rear and a bunch of other things can fill up the dark days of winter.

 

That Olds looks good in there!

 

Interesting thing is in my olds manual there is no mention of applying sealant to the flywheel bolts but like you I did anyway.

 

Amazing how close that delivery fender got to being patch panels after all that time, and was rescued at the last minute. I wouldn't have blamed you for cutting it up, but your traded replacement sounds like it's way less work, and kinda nice to think that rare bit is going to be used as intended again. New puppy doesn't look nearly as impressed.

 

I totally agree. It looked HUGE on the floor and was like how is this going to fit, but it does.

 

The AutoTrans guy david edwards said not to use a gasket between the flywheel and crank flange as the Pontiac manual specifically states not to do so, just the sealant only. The Olds manual said to use a gasket and the sealant there and my car had a gasket in place upon dissassembly so I put one back on and sealed everything back up . Biggest fear in all this is that it wont shift right or will leak everywhere at high pressure and I will have to take it all back out! Its a pretty simple thing and I double and triple checked everything so crossing fingers. This is my first build this deep, usually I just do body and paint, and there is a lot of moving bits in a car.

 

I really did not want to cut it up and was stalling as best as I could but needing to make progress and BAM he called, crazy. I knew somebody would need it. It was just how are they going to find me and how to get it to them. Super stoked that it worked out for both of us. The new dog is a total snuggle pup with a bit of a wild side. She is a Foster Fail, my wife took her in as she was scheduled to be put down after 6 months at the pound. She was here 6 weeks and my daughter and I were telling my wife to stop trying to give our dog away. She is just starting to venture into the garage with me and will hang out for a bit before going back to someones lap on the couch.

 

Chugging along. When we last meet the engine was in but pointing at 7.5* down and needed to come up a lot to match the 4* up the rear end is currently set at. I had to remove the upper CE X-member bracing to get the tailshaft high enough. I also put in a crappy extra steering column/box to check clearances. This is where it needs to sit. If I went to the ideal 3* it would have to come up another inch as there is no way to lower the front of the engine without engineering all new brackets or cutting the crossmember to make recessed pockets for the biscuit mounts. Not going to happen now, its where its staying.


I had to trim a lot more of the firewall than I thought I would have to to get it where it needed to be. It just barely clears the cast in vents on the bellhousing. There are no body mount pads in yet so it will add to the clearance.



The frame was already modded when I got it but knowing what I see now it could have retained its original bracing and wishbone ball mount. I removed the bottom split wishbone plate and drilled holes to add two ball caps to make a new mount.

The upper ball half will eventually get welded in and I'm contemplating where I can add some internal braceing for strength as teh factory piece had all sorts of webbing but it is 3/16" plate and seems strong. Axle caster angle seems to be 9* and at the upper end of the acceptable scale but hard to tell on jack stands. I will wait to weld the cups in until I see if it needs to be spaced down some or put in through the top to raise it after a road test.



I wanted to start outfitting the motor and pulled out the starter. I hooked it up to a battery and it turned over very slowly. Upon disassembly i found a mess.


Wires broken and things all buggered up. I had even collected a Hildebrandt changeover to keep everything period.


But looking at starters as a pig in a poke deal in that used ones were not guaranteed to be any better than the junk I had, I opted for a new mini-starter from Snap Re-builders. I will probably sell the change over eventually to cover the cost of the starter but will hang onto it for now as one never knows.


I test fit it and it clears the steering box with an inch to spare. I need to paint the bell housing now that I know it will be staying. All the steering linkage clears the oil pan as well as the wishbone clears the trans with how high it is.


I need to work up a new trans mid-mount. I had new factory rubber mounts on the shelf (miss orders from my wife's Pontiac years ago) and the stock 51 olds trans crossmember that I hoped to modify to fit inside the X-member legs.

That will not work as that space is occupied by the brake pedal/master on the left side. I have two options, attach it at the end of the tail shaft down to the EC X-member bottom plate or at the bottom of the bell cover. I'm leaning bell cover. It is centrally located like factory and as it has a small inspection cover there with 4 tapped holes I can use those for attachment. Think a Hurst sbc front mount looking sort of thing that goes up and catches the X-member legs bottom flange.


I have resigned myself to no more than three hours at a time in the garage. I'd love mentally to do more but physically if I loose track of time I wind up being overly sore and having a hurt back for three days afterwords which seriously takes the fun out of it. I need to set up a chair and just chill sometimes but I am a constant fidget-er and it is hard to sit still.

 

Looking forward to seeing how you mount the transmission. I used the factory mounts for my Pontiac and ended up wishing I had gone another route. I got them real close to the correct angle but ended up having to shim one side with washers.

 

My advice is don't sell the changeover and don't toss the old starter yet.

My 32 with a Olds 324 has been in the road since 2016. I was using the stock starter for a few years until it gradually got slower cranking speeds.

I had taken a brand new mini starter with both drive gear sizes for both Olds flywheel sizes, on a straight trade for some Olds J2 linkages I had on the classifieds here. This starter was from the famous Olds engine builder which I won't name. So, lazy me, I used that mini that I had kept in stock.

I used my car a lot back then, it's a true primary car. I live alone so there is nobody's modern car here to use, so the 32 is my only car. I would make a lot of stops during the day, so that means the starter gets used a lot each time I drove it.

After maybe 3 years it sounded different like maybe a battery going bad, but switched with another battery didn't help. It kept getting worse and eventually would sometimes grind the teeth, until it locked up in my driveway.

It had a full broken tooth on the drive gear, a half tooth broken and several chipped teeth. These starters are built/modified from Asian car starters, originally these were not ever designed to be used on these big engines even if stock compression. The drive gear is not supported on the outer part of the drive gear like the stock Olds starter. Then the increased loads are on the inner bearing and that bearing is in the aluminum housing which will pound out eventually. The more play it gets, the amount of pounding-out gets more rapid.

Eventually the play on the drive gear assembly allows the drive gear to try to climb a tooth on the flywheel and will break teeth.

The Hydramatic torus might be more of a load on the initial start, not sure, but do you really want to chance damaging your flywheel?

Some people might get away with these crappy starter designs if you only start the car once a week or whatever, but it didn't last for shit on my daily.

I wish I had remembered that I did also have a nice stock 1956 Olds starter here instead of using that mini that day. That 56 starter I then took apart to clean and lube and it's still perfect 5 years now.

 

Thank you for this. I also do happen to have a freshly rebuilt/reman 56 324 olds starter (came with parts motor I got the #10 heads off) and have not thrown out a single part, including the 303 starter. You are correct on the unsupported gear, its just hanging out there. I knew the 303/324 starters were not interchangeable with different gears and just assumed I'd have to get the mini. But now that you mentioned this I believe I can swap the gear from the 303 starter into the 324 starter case and have a good original. Project for next weekend!

 

I've had some memory loss about the starters. I just can't say for sure, but I keep thinking that the starters are different designs and if true, you won't be able to switch drive gears. Do a visual comparison. Was it the length of the main body and it's shaft length? Idk

I know I never had a 6 volt 303 starter to look at, but did have the one year only 12 volt 303 starter and I think it was completely different design. Maybe somebody else can chime in on that

BTW, the 56 starter is one year only according to part number, I read it was upgraded torque in 56. Don't recall where I read that torque spec change, maybe in a Motors Manual or Chilton's.

I never had a changeover adapter but some threads on here claim certain starters do fit, and some don't fit, depending on who made the changeover. Maybe somebody can help on that

 

F&J, That's good information to have... Thanks! I too have a '32 Ford with a '56 324, mine has the Olds 3 speed and stock starter.

 

LOVE THIS BUILD and THE STORY!!!!!!! Think i ll just hit that WATCH thread button up there...Us OLDSTIMERS gotta stick together!!!!

 

IIRC Olds starters also need the matching lower bell housing. Seems I had an issue with my starter not fitting and had to swap out the lower bell to get the correct alignment with the drive to the flywheel.
Can't tell from the pic, but can you get the trans pan off easily with the bones not split?

 

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Great progress.

 

If I remember correct if you do the starter crossover the early 50 starter bolts right up but is 6 volt. If you use the later 12 volt starter you need to dent or modify the oil pan for clearance plus trim the starter end housing to fit so it engages the flywheel.

 

All this starter chatter had me back in the garage and digging through stuff.

I believe if the chassis is on stands, the axle hanging on the spring with no shocks and the wishbone ball released there should be plenty of room to pull the wishbone down far enough to get the lower bell out of the way. I checked my extra starter against your numbers and it is a correct 56 unit. It looks nearly identical to the 303 starter with some casting improvements and no open windows. The end casting where the drive gear goes looks the same to me alignment wise but does have a few external casting differences. It fits on the crossover and has the same protrusion as the 303 one. Now if it will fit next to the motor and line up with the flywheel I do not know. As far as starter to motor fit as @62pan mentioned I do have the Offenhauser #100 oil filter relocating thingie but have no idea if the oil pan or starter will need any clearanceing. I had read also about other starters that could work, possibly an earlier caddy unit I recall. I'm not going to completely give up on the mini-starter yet. Knowing that I do have options when, not if, it craps out it will be easier to deal with knowing I have the answer to the problem on the shelf.

Comparisons




Different casting clean up grinding on the snout but the shield part starts and ends in the same places relative to the bolt holes (hard to capture in a single photo as each at a different angle).


It bolts up at least

The changeover has a mostly open back (against floor) so I'd assume you could actually look from the back and check how it is fitting up. As @62pan noted it may need some grinding when a fit is attempted

 

There is no need to give up on the mini starter, I hope everyone didn't think that I said don't use it if you already bought it.

I agree that figuring out, and proving to yourself, which Olds starter will work with your flywheel tooth count and will work with your brand of crossover housing is a good idea. In case the mini starter goes bad.

Anyways, I'm not trying to be a know it all, but your Olds starter pictures agreed with my memory from long ago when I was trying to use parts from one style, to put in the other style, and it just wouldn't fit.

Measure the length of each starter shaft if you can guess at the 56 one instead of taking it apart. I am pretty sure nothing interchanges if your goal is to change the drive gear from 6 volt flywheel to the gear for 12 volt flywheel. I think I tried, and nothing fit.

One has a dust strap over the brushes, and later ones don't as a quick ID. I'm pretty sure both tooth counts of the drive gear is the same, 9?, but diameters are different.

Like I said, I don't know or how to determine which starter will mesh correctly with the two different teeth count flywheels that came on Olds when using whatever brand changeover housing. As Vtwhead talked about running into mismatched parts when he needed to set up a working starter on a stock starter housing.

I recall reading threads about people having big problems trying to get a properly fitting starter on a changeover housing. I thought one brand of housing had two bolt patterns?

I was thrilled that I didn't need a changeover after I was successful in using a stock starter by planning my steering and exhaust clearances.


BTW , I said the 56 starter is one year part number like Vtwhead chart shows. But the 56 fits the same as a 54 and a 55 starter. Number change was due to the torque difference and electrical specs.

 

IIRC @Paul had a post about using a starter with the crossover bell. Might have been a Cad but I cannot remember now. He may jump in here if he sees this.

 

it was a six volt Olds mounted upside down with modified bendix arm

 

was that arm mod. because of upside down??

 

when mounted upside down the solenoid needs to be re-clocked to avoid the oil pan
you will also need to open the gear window a bit
note, looking at the pictures I see a red tag on the starter indicating 12 volt

here's a link to the one posted: starter modification

 

Yes it is the later starter for 324 it seems. It can't be the 1953 303 12 volt for the smaller tooth count flywheel, because it doesn't have the dust strap over the brushes. (My fading memory says the 1953 had the strap)

But I didn't read the whole thread to find out what flywheel it has, the 303 or the 324 with more teeth. It has the earliest version of a 303 lower crank pulley, so I'd quess it's a 303 engine but it still could have the later 1954-1956 flywheel with different tooth count compared to a 303 flywheel....or it could be a 303 flywheel?

To top it off as far as ongoing mysteries of changeover specifications, one pic on that thread shows it has the type of changeover adapter with the dual starter bolt pattern.

I wonder what flywheel it had. You'd think it absolutely must be a 324 wheel, but ..... ?