Is anybody else having this issue with new voltage regulators? My '30 coupe with a 59A flatty. Stock style generator converted to 12V that I picked up at Hershey years ago when I was parts hunting for the build. The original VR I tried with it was not working so well. It was recommended by somebody in another thread on here. Never really charged well. Ammeter readings were not up to snuff. Replaced it when it stopped working. New one was dead out of the box. Took it to the local rebuilder in my area on Long Island with the genny and they confirmed: Good genny....bad VR. Got another. Brought it with the genny to the rebuilder to have it checked out BEFORE I installed this time. Checked out good. Installed. Lasted a year with same weak charging. Moved to Virginia. Decided to switch to the same VR that's in my '55.1 Chevy 1/2 ton with the '58 235 (12V) in it since that VR has been in the thruck for something like 15 years with no issues. Lo and behold...an actual charging system that puts out correct amperage and voltage. Fantastic. Lasted less than a year. Got a new one. Dead out of the box. Got another new one. Dead out of the box.. Decided to switch to the standard Ford VR35 voltage regulator, '54-'64 with a 12V generator. Dead out of the box. Got ANOTHER VR35. Dead out of the box. All units purchased from NAPA, Echlin units. Stamped "Made in USA". When I lived on Long Island, there were many, and I mean many, FLAPS in my area. Lots and lots of local small shops. My favorite kind of places. Dirty, cluttered, with a guy behind the counter as old as me that KNEW cars. Guys that didn't just have computers on the counter but BOOKS too. There's NOTHING like that here in VA. All chain stores and NAPA. All the VR's bought in VA were NAPA/Echlin. Wife is in NY now. I'm thinking of having her visit one of my favorite shops to pick up a Standard Motor Products unit while there. She's going back a week after she comes home so she could return it if THAT one is no good. Problem is I'm pretty damn sure that if its Echlin (NAPA) or Standard Motor Products, all the VR's stamped "Made in USA" come out of the same facility just with different color covers on them. The builds all look exactly the same. This is a traditional Hot Rod build. I'm NOT going with an alternator. I"m NOT going with a Powergen. I COULD have my genny converted to an alternator by E.J. Whitney in CA but that's a very spendy thing to do...VERY spendy. I mean...it's not rocket science. This should all work. I'm just looking for a VR that works and won't crap out after a year of use. What gives??? Any advice? Andy
Yeah, the GM thing doesn’t work. But still, I can sympathize with your frustration about the Ford style regulators. I’ve had similar issues over the years. Have you ever tried adjusting it? Or running a point file between the contacts if they have a little schmutz?
If I understand you correctly, I'm surprised it worked with the GM style regulator and Ford generator. The Ford system uses a "B" circuit and GM uses a "A" circuit. In the "B" system, the field of the generator is grounded all the time inside the generator and varies the "positive" going to the field through the regulator. When I say "positive" what I mean is the non-grounded side of the circuit, depending on whether you are pos or neg ground. Anyway, The GM "A" circuit uses the "positive" or non-grounded to the field all the time and the regulator varies the amount of grounding of the field. As you can see, either way you do it the various current flowing through the field winding is the way of controlling the generator output. The more current flowing in the field, the stronger the magnetic field, so the higher output. The problem is in how you control this current, Both systems get one side of the circuit from inside the generator and the other side gets its connection from the regulator. So with your "B" circuit Ford system generator, it would be getting its field winding grounding from inside the generator and with a GM style regulator, this regulator would be providing ground potential also. So no current flows in the field, no output. I have three cars with generator systems some of them on the road for 40 years, I don't think I have bought more than one new regulator the whole time. I do pick up regulators from swap meets when I can, when I get home I determine if they are 6v or 12 and what system they are for. I do get some that do not work but most of the time I just have to clean the points. You mention that you have tried the VR35 regulator and that that is for a '54 to '64 Ford, I'm thinking a '54 Ford was 6volt, no? I know the '64 Ford would be 12volt so... I understand you sticking with the generator system on your car, They are very dependable once you get them paired up with the correct regulator and wired correctly.
Great post, thanks for the explanation of the differences. Uh...I guess I've been unlucky? All of them have failed me....dirty regulator contacts, broken brush springs, exploding commutator, etc. They seem to be a constant battle. I'm glad someone can keep them going these days!
Sounds like the typical price point engineering. You seem to have a good understanding of the problem, you just need a quality part. I don't know if this will help, but there are a lot of posts about issues and fixes here. Example https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/how-to-test-a-generator-49-ford.24575/
I had a similar issue on a daily with a generator fought it for a while. bought a few regulators. 1 of my brushes was sticking but not really stuck took the brushes out hit them with some emery cloth was still working when I sold the car
Are you polarizing the system after installing the components? Just a thought. Don't think it's been mentioned.
46International had a good explanation of A circuit and B circuit charging systems. The regulators that were dead out of the box were probably the wrong regulators. You need to determine which circuit style you have. An easy way is to disconnect the field wire from the regulator and keep it from touching ground. Now start the engine and run it about 800 rpm. Touch the field wire to ground. If the generator starts charging you have an A circuit generator, if it doesn't you have a B circuit generator. A circuits are GM and B circuits are Ford. While you took the generator to a shop and had them check the generator and regulator, I think you would benefit from having someone familiar with DC charging systems check the system on the vehicle. With that said, I drove a 57 T-Bird for 27 years with the stock charging system. In that time I replaced the voltage regulator about 4 times. The problem was the same each time. The cut-out relay in the regulator became weak. Generators do not charge well at low rpm. It is possible for the voltage output to drop below battery voltage. If this happens the battery will make the generator act like a motor and you don't want that. The regulator has a cut-out relay to disconnect the armature from the charging system when generator output voltage drops below battery voltage. In order for the generator to charge at all, the cut-out relay has to close. Adjusting the spring tension only helped my problem for a short time. I think I bought one regulator from a T-Bird supplier and the rest from NAPA. They all experienced the same problem with the cut-out relay. I even took one apart to see if I could find the problem. I couldn't, but I think they probably skimped on the number of turns of wire on the relay coil. Just my 2 cents.
Just a reminder ... make sure every component is grounded .... if you're mounting the reg. on the firewall, run a 12ga ground wire from reg. to gen., & a strap from body to rails.
I have had very much problems with those new VR35 Ford voltage regulators. I use 12V Ford generators. Those are maybe only packed in USA, not made 100% in USA. Last year changed one after 2000miles.... Have done all right, from wirings to polarizing... Old voltage regulators are quality stuff !!!, these new ones must be made in china shit.... A
Yep '56-'64 regulator. Typed it in wrong first time as '54... Yes, I know about the differences in the Ford vs. GM regulators but I was frustrated an decided to give it a shot. Was just as surprised when it actually worked. lol Of course I polarized them.. Every time. The auto electric rebuilder here is a family run old-timey shop. Old guy owner even looked at it and couldn't get the VR to work. Gennie still tests out good. Got a call from them yesterday. Gennie good...second VR35 regulator bad. Very frustrated. Andy
Chiro, I've had good luck with the ones from Standard Ignition. I get them from Rock Auto. Been using them for many years.
I only use NOS regulators. There are heaps for sale on eBay all the time. Atlas, Echlin, Standard and such. Less expensive than a new one too. 1956 to 60 ish.
Several years ago I had a new Ford VR fail out of the box... or so I thought. When I bought an identical replacement, the counter guy emphasized following the enclosed polarization instructions to the letter. Turned out the polarization process for that particular VR was different than expected. What I get for being a typical know-it-all and not reading the instructions in the first place. I'm not suggesting the OP doesn't know what he's doing. Just sharing my "Oh Duh" moment.
^^^Yup. I always follow the instructions on polarizing that are in the box to the letter. Still, these VR's are DOA. Andy
I had a generator rebuilt at a shop in town. Was told to get a good USA regulator and the rebuilder would calibrate it for the generator. Got a Standard Ignition VR-2 made in USA. He checked it out and said looks like it should work well. Installed and polarized it when putting into my 47 Plymouth. Less than a year the regulator was toast. Got an NOS Autolite regulator off Ebay. Put it on straight out of the box, having nothing to loose, and has been good for 4 years now. I was told the new replacement regulators do not have enough silver on the contact pads and end up welding the points together when the silver wears off. I did not check to see if that was the case with mine. Threw the bad one away, before I found out this info.
You can get solid state (transistorised) regulators for generators. If you don't like what it looks like, you can put them inside an old mechanical regulator housing. No more contacts to file or adjust. Just drill a few ventilation holes in the original housing if you are going to hide one in there.
Do you have a source for both A and B circuit regulators? I have used an electronic version from Lucas on Ford B circuit but haven’t found a source for GM A circuit. Thanks
^^^Do you have a part number for that Ford electronic VR? Is it for 12V? I have not had luck finding such an animal and I'm not worried about the looks. It's mounted on the inside of the firewall out of sight. Andy
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