Hot Rods 301/302 SBC build.

Wheels up every time and consistant 9's. I talked to Mr. Schwartz for a few minutes, great guy. Never got around to asking about the motor though. Leaves at a very high RPM.

 

There probably aren't many stock Chevrolet parts in Mr. Swartz's engine.

 

Yeeeeeep, there is a lot more to an engine than just cubes isn't there.

 

Torkwrench is correct, traditionally 301's were.120 not .125. The .125 thing started more in the late sixties, after the 302's had been out for a while.

 

My thoughts on my next junk301 engine is.

A '66, 283 block bored an 1/8th over.

6" rod, 350 standard bore flat-top pistons and I will install 6-1/4" long rods.

50 cc chamber heads, either my old 305HO, -601's or the 49 cc, 200 cc intake port cast-iron jobbers?

Solid flat-tappet cam: 280/246, 108/108, .498" lift and need's .030" hot lash. I am going to install
1.6 ratio rockers so lift should be very close to .500" after lash.

Holley 300-36 true high-rise dual plane intake with a Holley 750 cfm, 3310-2 vacuum 4-barrel.

A cheap set of 1-5/8", 4-tube, long tube headers with WDT smooth perforated inner pipe old-fashion glass packs and tailpipes out past the rear bumper.

Old stock point dizzy.

If I don't install flat-top pistons, I will use my old -461 or -291 double-hump, big valve heads, 5.7" long rods and stock type domed pistons.

A rough guess is like 400 to maybe 425 hp and I am going to shift her at 8,000 rpm for the fun of it even thought it won't be producing good power that high.

I love these high winding, short-stroke little engines!!!! Put your foot in her and let her keep going up, and up, and up!!

pdq67

 

Yep, all about moving air. You can move as much air with a 302 as you can with a bigger engine (neither flow enough with factory parts) . Just gotta twist her tighter. And getting parts to live at 10,000 is a little more expensive than getting parts to live a 6500/7000.

 

LOL the original Z28 was rated @ 290 HP and was said to actually make 350 @ 7K. The SCCA motors were said to make @ 450 HP but they like the car that Mr Schwartz is running were probably filled to the brim with unobtainium.

I am not sure which stock dizzy you plan on using but I am going to guess that @ 7K unless it is a stock high performance dizzy the points are really going to be bouncing. But it sounds like fun, I hope to see it run

@falcongeorge I never punched a mill until about '68 and have never seen a set of .120 pistons so the only 301s that I am familiar with were punched .125. Not to say that they never were punched .120 just that I am only familiar with the .125 version of the motor.

 

I hate to admit it but....when I built 301's in the 60's I just used whatever 283 block I had that needed boring...saving the good ones for stock class builders..just bored the block without much thought about wall thickness and stuck in a good 283 truck (steel) crank, balanced the complete assembly and went racing..

Bill

 

Probably more built that way than any other way back then. I used the blocks that I used because an older guy said that they were best and they were still easy to come by.

 

Yep---
You could get away with it in the early years because the blocks hadn't done all their
"core shifting" yet.
Those were the days weren't they.

 

Lmao !
When do the cores start to shift ?

 

You won't be laughing when your machinist calls and says he ran into "water"----
on the last hole.
Ha Ha!!!

 

All the early 265's and 283's have forged cranks in
them.
Somewhere there is a vid posted of an old 302 or slightly bigger on a dyno that is pumping out like 471 hp or so up around 7,000+ rpm with no more than an old solid lifter flat-tappet cam in it. probably over at Team Camaro? I think it is an old road-race engine? TRACO 302 engines were putting out somewhere around 440 hp too back then.

I have posted many times about my old junk301 that I put together out of, well, junk parts years ago and daily drove it for quite a while in my '67SS/RS Camaro.

A '55, 265 truck crank and 1.72"/1.50" valve -460 heads that I ground hell out of. A stock wore out bore SJ 327 block that I swear had .007"+ clearance on my pistons. Rods were the better/heavier 283 because the stock 265 rods looked like lo-po 305 rods!! Not worth using!

Pistons were W/JCW Badgers(?) or Triplex(?) that cost $39.99 back then. They were 1/8" over, 283 cast "steel strutted" with 1/8" tall, 1/2 round domes like the hi-po-283 stock engines ran.

Cam was a used -097 Little Duntov solid out of a junk engine from a Bone Yard I worked in part time while going to Jr. College. Heck, I even coffee-canned its lifters and it still lasted fine...

Carb and intake was from my stock, 350SS engine so was a 750 cfm Q-Jet. Stock cast-iron exhaust manifolds with welded on dumps on my exhaust pipes.

My old engine was NOT balanced and I could tell my rpms by the harmonics it went through going up to 7,000+ rpm. It went through 3!

And being unbalanced, it had a habit of tossing a damper every so often driving easy down the road. Last time I lost it, I went to said Bone Yard and beat one off a junk engine and beat it on my crank fine..

Sucker would flat rpm!

I would double spring the points in my dizzy so that for a week, it would hit 7,500 rpm and then drop off to like 7,000 rpm.

He, He!! I don't know if it's short block is still out at Scrounge's old country house or not after all these years??

pdq67

 

Still not having much luck finding that illusive 327 block, at leastwise for a somewhat reasonable price; the only standard bore block to turn up has a $900.00 asking price . But, I've found a .040 over 283 with hi-comp pistons locally for a little bit of change; I may just pick it up for "parts"; I'll probably take the block out to .060, and use those pistons/rods I have to make a 292. I am Butch/56sedandelivery.

 

292s ran fine. I guess you don't have bragging rights but you could always brag about getting home and not on the hook.

 

There were a lot of guys that built 292s also and as beaner said, they ran good too.

 

b-t-w; Tommy's son Timmy ("stewed" here on the hamb) has the Henry J in Georgia now. Sure would like to see it back at MoKan.

 

That makes two of us. I would like it better if the weekender were driving it (no offense intended) damn I miss that man.

In '75 I tuned a '63 post car for a guy that was running a 292. He told everyone that it was a 301 and no one was any the wiser. Tail lights is tail lights and it don't matter what is in front of them.

 

My 292 in my '57 backed with a Saginaw 4-speed ran real good. It (the 292) originated on a creeper, covered by a tarp, sitting outside. Had an aluminum intake off a '67 327 with an AFB, and a 3:54 in the back. Was it balanced??? It turned 7K in first. Another way of saying "I dunno".

 

My second car in high school(1970) was a 57 Bel Air 2 dr. HT, it had a wore out (64)283/2bbl. engine with a steel 4 bbl. intake and Holley(adapted) and appliance headers, original 3.08 rear got changed to 4.11's as well as a trans. change from 3 speed to a BW-T10.
That car was a lot of fun, I can imagine how much trouble I could have gotten in with a lowly 292.

 

Phttttt I got a speeding ticket in a 6 cylinder '62 Step side. Those old 283s were just good motors weren't they.

When we were kids we had a lot of fun without a lot of investment it seems. Maybe not knowing as much as we do now was a good thing.

 

For $900 you should be able to sleeve all 8 holes on several "free" small journal blocks that some guys throw away. Sleeving technology must be really good by now and not bank breaking expensive to get it back to standard bore, especially since you have new pistons.
overspray

 

You would be better off finding a "small journal" 327 block that way your 283 crank will fit. Otherwise you will have to get oversized bearings to compensate. Other than that it is pretty straight forward.

 

The small journal 327s are 1967 and before. I believe they still make over sized bearings for the later years of the 327s.

 

I got 1 or 2 327 blocks.....need typical machine work, $350 for a short block guaranteed no cracks, .......for Sale.......or if you got deep pockets .......I have a 67 Camaro only casting coded ML(MO was 302) that is 0.030 over 2 bolt with windage tray, is a 302 build, can't remember if it was this way from factory, or a Paul Cole built 302 from a low mile 327 block. But either way, it had Nitrided crank. Alum Super Rods, Picked up some new custom made pistons to match the original ARIAS 14:1 pistons, to try and rebuild this nasty little AHRA motor. lost interest First ($1000) can take this and build it. Also have a 283's ...several with new dome pistons that could make a nice little 300 hp screamer. ($400)

 

Does everything come with that 302?

 

This is one of those projects put on hold for now. My best possibilities for a block are a NOS small journal 327 for $$$$$$$$$, and a .125 over Early Chevy II 283 block for $$$$$; both more than I wanted to spend, as this was supposed to be a low dollar build. I may just sell the rotating assembly because, including this engine, I have 6 in the works; too many, and I need the room! I am Butch/56sedandelivery.

 

Because nothing else sounds like a SBC when its turning 9,500 RPM

 

Oh, like GM would cast different blocks for different applications, right!

 

Back in the day, our machinist would punch the block .060” , then “sound” the walls with a little ballpean hammer, looking for thin spots. If it sounded good to him, we went for it. Always trusted him!