School me on International 345!!

Too heavy and too bulky for any application that most of us would put a V8 in now.
Still one of the big problems with anything International is that they never released very many things for aftermarket reproduction at any time. I worked in a shop across the street from one of the best and most well stocked independent auto parts houses in Texas back years ago and you could not get a radiator hose for a 292 powered IH Travelall at the parts house and had to go to the dealer and pay full list price. Just about every other part was and still is dealer only.
Hopefully That Old guy isn't the parts guy I almost drug over the counter in the IH shop in Waco in the 70's when he mouthed off to me. They didn't make much money off Ryder Truck rental because Jim Ryder had a national deal with the corp and local dealers hated to wait on guys from Ryder at least in Waco.

 

There's a concept called Torque Rise, that describes the effect of an engine designed with peak torque level at a lower RPM than peak power; as rpms fall due to loading of the engine, the torque increases. The amount of torque rise can be designed into the engine; this is a known feature mostly in diesel engines, but IH designed their gas engines for this as well. IH engines are well known for their ability to chug along under a heavy load, where most other makes would have the driver downshifting to get the rpm's back up this isn't needed when you have good torque rise. When guys are describing them as torque monsters that isn't just a description of heavy and slow, it's a description of an engine that doesn't fall on it's face when heavily loaded. Your comparison is really pointless, the engines weren't designed or intended to be the fastest, they were intended to get the job done under heavy loading, and to last a long time doing it.

 

Decided to swap my 345 with a 5.3/4L60, due to the high rpms (& fuel consumption) I’d have with the 345 backed with the 727 3 sp and 4.56 gears I got to replace the stk 3.08s. I have a comparison of the 345 hp/tq curves with the 5.3 hp/tq curves. As others have mentioned, the 345 keeps up and/or surpasses the hp & tq of the 5.3 up to about 2,000 - 2,500 rpm - hence “torque monster”. This is an amazing feat considering the 25 year gap in technological advances.

 

Those are great graphs, and illustrate very well the concept of torque rise. On the Chevy 5.3, when the rpms fall below 4000, and the engine is under load, it's all over, downshift and grab another gear. With the IH 345 from 4000 rpm down to 2000 the torque skyrockets, no need to grab another gear, you just let it ride. The engine doesn't bog down, that's it's happy place. It's a far better way to drive under loaded conditions than constantly shifting up and down. The entire drive train appreciates it too, less work for the clutch, far less shock loading on the drive line and axles. A bull dog aint gonna win a race with a greyhound, but it will kick it's ass in a fight.

 

Well, I have some experience with these critter- my gramps had an IH truck and tractor dealership in the 50's and early 60's, and he bought himself a 64 Loadstar 1800 with a 345, 5x4 transmissions, 10 wheel dump. He later picked up a used 1800 with a 392, same trans setup. He always had very good service from his trucks n tractors, as he had a very good maintenance ethic, and didn't tolerate an misuse/ abuse of his stuff. Those two Loadstars were later arrivals, with one exception I will get to later. He had trucks for many years, old Brockways, the a bunch of lionhearted REOs (and the sweetest-sound six ever) and IH stuff, and that '64 345 was the most dependable, efficient and easy to drive truck he ever had. I serviced those two for years, late 60's early 70's, they got grease/service every 1K miles, and oil changes with Mobil Delvac every 2K. Points every 10K. One of the drivers on the 64, for 3 years, never revved it over 3K on a 3800 governor, and it never lacked for power to pick up the next gear. The 392 was of course stronger and used a little more gas, and governed at 3600. The 345 was checked for mileage, at 52,000 lbs loaded, and got consistent 7.5 average mpg. Just a sweetheart of a truck with an indestructable engine. He took it in the dealership in the winter of '72 and had the 345 rebuilt with 135K on it, was using 1/2 quart a day and still running great. Fresh rings and bearings with a valve job was it. The 69 with the 392 was sold to it's driver in '73, and gramps bought his last on, a Fleetstar 2010 with the gasserbeast 549 and a Roadranger. Even that one wasn't bad on gas if you kept your fat foot out of it, but it, and another guys' F800 Ford with a 534 could keep up with and pass any of the diesels we ran with if you let them eat- and eat they would. That guy with the 534 had a set of exhaust cutouts on it, with pipes coming up behind the cab and perfectly aimed for a truck window in the right lane. If a smartass in a diesel rig passed him, maybe shooting him the bird, he would let'er eat, pull around, and just as he pulled past, would return the bird and pull the cutouts right in the drivers ear- nobody ever passed him twice lol

 

To the Cali guy: No I worked at Dads place in Elkland, Pa. Always a perky kid. Nice to people unless they weren’t nice to me. We sold farm equipment and lawn tractors and even snowmobiles a few years when they were great sellers. I’ll agree the truck division parts guys often hated taking anytime out to help light truck owners. The light truck division withered on the vine from lack of support. Still have fond memories of the 78 Limited Scout 2 I was able to have for a few years after Pop got full sized Bronco lust when Scouts quit being made. When I outgrew the Scout and tired of body cancer operations ( Gotta love road salt, nope.) I moved to Ranger mini trucks for a while. IH fans are a unique bunch. The Scout SS2 won a fair amount of off road races despite almost nil aftermarket support. However the street versions had a heater about as powerful as a blow dryer and typical 1970s malaise era quality. 2 passed through our family. The Hard Tops were only slightly warmer. Imagine my culture shock when my first Ranger introduced me to parts available at every turn and the wonders of the SVO catalog, and a heater defroster AC unit that kept up with nutty eastern mountain weather. I missed the V8 thump, but loved 23 mpg. If only IH had given the Scout group engineering what they needed. Tons of potential ignored.

 

I have never seen one equipped with one

 

The Federal govt. figured out that gas school buses got 4 MPG vs 8 MPG for diesel. The Nation's school bus fleet uses an enormous amount of fuel every day, think the L.A. area in the mid-80s used either 1 million (bucks or gallons) of gas a day. By mandating diesel the use would be cut in half when the whole fleet would be changed out. Making new gas busses was banned in '85 (or so).

 

Really? I had 1990 GMC’s with EFI 366 gas engines in them when I was a foreman for Mayflower Contract Services in the mid-1990’s. Ford Motor Company still builds a school bus chassis with a gas engine.

 

In the "As far as I know' category. The School District said they were forced to buy diesel when production was banned, cheap SOBs wanted gas busses.

 

20 years ago, I heard about the same thing when I was driving and repairing school buses for a small school district. All our newer busses were diesel powered.

A little Googling finds out that this is not quite true. Blue Bird Corporation still makes gasoline school busses.

https://www.blue-bird.com/vision-gas/

In my humble opinion, diesel is much less flammable than gasoline. So maybe the ban on gasoline powered busses is a state mandate or an insurance mandate.

Russ

 

You will start to see an switch back to gasoline powered schoolies over the next few years. The expense, unreliability, and service problems associated with DEF and other diesel aftertreatment methods are not worth the fuel savings for most districts. The Ford 7.3 Godzilla has helped push this change forward as well.

Now, back to our regularly scheduled program presented by IH.

 

I have a 345 in a 75 IH pick-up and must say that every time I need a part of it, I must go to a IH garage. International seem to have a production, at least for 1975, using three different brands for a lot of the bolt on components. Several of my buddies have pulled the 345s out and replace them with Caddy engines. My opinion would be that the 345 is a basic truck engine where gas mileage is secondary to the task at hand.

 

I have a 62 loadstar dump truck equipped with a 345 that I use on my property. That truck will pull a house down.

 

Reportedly there's something like 130 different carcinogens in diesel exhaust.