Hey guys gotta ‘63 impala that I’m installing a Muncie 4 speed. It’s got 1/4” to go but doesn’t want to go in. I’ve tried just about everything including jacking the rear end higher to help it slide in but now I’m tired and would like some tips. Thanks
get a friend to come pushe the clutch in while you wriggle-screw it in--out of align w/ pilot--but should have more than a 1/4 engagement w/ that pilot!! so....
Do you have a headless bolt in the bellhousing to help align it ? It’ll also take a lot less muscle holding the trans up . The only thing I can suggest is that the pp isnt aligned properly or something got in the pilot bearing.
1/4" sounds like the front bearing retainer is not going into the hole in the bellhousing. The pilot should be in the bushing, the input shaft splines should be in the clutch hub. Might need to take stuff apart to see what's wrong? perhaps a burr or corrosion on the bellhousing hole or bearing retainer? Don't try to force it in with the bolts, it will snap the ears off the case.
Had the same problem on an off topic Camaro. Everything new, new ******, new Muncie M22, new clutch, new pressure plate, new ****ter shield, etc. ****** wouldn't go in the last 1/4". Ended up being the hole in the ****ter shield wasn't big enough. Cleaned it up with a dremel tool, and it slid right in. I'd check that.
Had the same thing happen with an M20 trying to go into a BBC. Last 1/4" was a no-go. After trying most everything else I went into the car and pressed the clutch pedal in and out several times. Maybe I got lucky but the Muncie slid all the way in then.
The reason you see Muncies for sale with broken ears. He must know the same guy I knew 50 years ago who didn't understand that a little dab will do you on the pilot bushing. Someone told him to make sure and grease it before he put the trans in so he stuck the grease gun in it and filled it up like we would to hydraulic the bushing out. That suggestion of using a couple of headless bolts to guide it on is golden, I've done it for years and have bolts in my tool box that were cut off and have slots for a screwdriver cut in the end. I have some for automatics too. I've also found that those cone style clutch aligning tools that were popular years ago don't work near as well as a splined clutch aligning too.
I had the same problem back in 1965.The hole in the bellhousing on an original 63 is too small.I had to get 64 bellhousing.I was switching a T10 for a Muncie.
I put a little grease in the bearing and input splines. I did the headless bolts. I know not to bolt it in before it’s all the way in to prevent broken ears. Tomorrow I’ll bring the back end down to level things out and see if that works.
I recently had an issue with the pilot bushing compressing when installed enough that the input shaft wouldn't slide into it. This was a ***** to figure out, but afterwords I looked online and it has happened to other people. Second bushing did the same thing, I ended up using an adjustable reamer to get it to the correct size.
Duh! That should be checked before the bell is bolted to the engine. Along with clutch fork and throw-out bearing. I have a particular aversion to stubborn transmissions [and want things to go as smooth as possible during the install] @Eth727 if you suspect this is the problem , pull the trans back out and measure If you can't measure accurately you can either pull the bell or remove the bearing retainer and test fit. This issue is very rare [it is usually too lose from using a large bore truck bell]
****ter shield what is that? Are you talking about the flywheel inspection cover that bolts onto the lower portion of the bell? It’s still the original ‘63 one. Should I replace with a ‘64+ one? Do I even need it?
A ****tershield is a replacement bellhousing, perhaps made by Lakewood, that is NHRA legal for racing. It's made of 1/4" thick steel, and will contain the clutch/flywheel if it explodes (from too much RPM, or cracks, or whatever cause) An inspection cover is just an inspection cover. It keeps debris out of the clutch.
Can you move the fork to tell if the throw out bearing is too long, and it's already hitting the pressure plate? Or does the bearing feel like it can move in quite a bit with the fork? You'd have to hold the trans so it's lined up, not hanging at an angle. That's a long shot, but can be checked quickly. ****ter shield is the special Bell housing system for racing safety rules...in case a clutch or flywheel explodes. It replaced the stock bell housing.
Just to add to the scene,,, a trick that solved the disc alignment h***le for me. Put this out here in the past. laugh if you like, I don't mind. Began one snowy night. Nothing handy to use as a pilot. Working with a small AA flash light, I first bring up the PP bolts to touch, but not tight. The disc can move but lining surface will hold it in place. Letting my finger tips tell me how con-centric disc edge and the PP edge are, over as much area as my hands can reach to touch. As the bolts begin to push the PP surface, the ability to move the disc is gone, Place light 'tween teeth. Triple check for circular eveness. At this point one can actually sight thru to bush'g opening, equally surrounded by disc teeth. ( If not return to line four ) Slowly tighten the bolts in a typical 'gasket like' pattern, 'til finally tight. NowTrans in high gear ( 1 : 1 ) Bring the bell hsng, and trans closer, as pilot shaft teeth touch disc teeth. Reach back to output shaft and turn to catch the disc with the input. NOW the reason I take the trouble to convey this process, and the reason, you ought to try it. PLOONK says the bell as the trans smacks into it; Everytime, no h***le or struggle. Granted never did a MoPar 4 spd, looks like work. Have done Many a Muncie and BW. If on a lift, to see the target, lower car 'til floor pans are near shoulder hgt. Thanks for your time
Not the cause of your problem but also double check how the clutch fork is fitted to the flange on the throwout bearing, yes, it is possible to install it incorrectly.
I dry fit everything first. Pilot bushing over the input shaft, those I have put on a lathe to radius the hole a little more. I just use a dab of Lubriplate on the shaft O.D. Make sure the front retainer goes into the bellhousing. I made up a series of headless bolts maybe 40 years ago. Just 2 at the top is all you need. Working alone, I have used a bare yoke to allow me to turn the output shaft to get things in line. Take it completely out, look at the TO bearing, double check the installation of that, make sure it glides nicely over the retainer. That surface should have a very light application of Lubriplate on it as well.
Woo!hoo! Got her in after using a club to hold down the clutch. Whoever suggested that is going to get a hug and kiss from me if you’re ever in San Diego . I just had one more question: in neutral the output shaft spins but when it’s in gear I can’t move it with my fingers. Is that normal? Thanks a bunch fellas
I just dealt with something quite similar a couple of weeks ago on my roadster. I was experiencing issues with down shifting and shifting under power. I removed the T-5 and replaced the synchros and 2nd and 3rd gears as they were showing signs of abuse (self inflicted I'm afraid). When I slid it back in the flathead I had the same problem you described wit the last 1/4" or so. It finally went together but I was not comfortable with that fit. Next day I pulled it back out and measured the pilot bushing ID, If memory serves it was .5835" and the input shaft at .5910". Allowing some room for error, still too tight. I took some 220 paper, cut it into strips, doubled it over for strength and proceeded to turn that input shaft down, shoe polishing style. It took two sheets of paper and a couple of hours to get it down to .5825". I finished it with 800 to polish it a bit and re-beveled the end. Turning it down also removed any imperfection on the nose of that input shaft as an added benefit. It slid together effortlessly. I got a chance to drive the car the other day and it shifts smoother than it ever has. Don't overlook the clearance on that input shaft. Free fix, save a lot of frustration later. Somethings are better tight, bearings and bushings aint one of them.
Yes, that's normal. When in gear, the engine is the only thing that will cause the output shaft to spin other than the wheels. Basically, you're currently in "park". Dont leave the key on, remember your e- brake (legal disclaimer) -rick
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