Technical The making tube headers thread

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Tips and tricks, for the BASIC NOVICE please

wall thickness,
tig set up
etc etc

the 'do they need to be equal length on a street non race car' question

what grade stainless

thickness of flange

what tube slips into what tube tight

 

It looks like you want to make stainless headers? I guess my first question would be are you an experienced stainless tig welder? Experienced welding tubing? To answer some of your questions:
Flange thickness more is better, so 3/8" wouldn't be over kill but you could get by with 1/4". Type 304 stainless is suitable for naturally aspirated applications in 0.049 to 0.065 wall thickness. If turbocharged type 321 is best and much more expensive. Do you plan to buy bends to fabricate from, or bend your own tubes? If this is your first attempt at welding tube I would not waste the money on stainless. If you read up on stainless tube welding to get quality welds you should have a system to purge the pipe while welding. I would start with making a mild steel set.

 

Here's a set I made for my altered roadster, powered by a Ford 304 ci inline six.
And another set I made for my champ car, also Ford powered.

One suggestion I have - to produce a cleaner weld with less internal "dingleberries". Use a shielding gas on the insides of the tubes. I used regulated argon. To get the inert gas to fill the tube with no outside contamination I inserted the gas nozzle into a mini nerf football that I had cored a hole thru. That way I was able to compress and squeeze the nerf football into the tube which held the gas nozzle in place with an airtight, hands-free seal. Enjoy

 

Not a header per say, but my effort in tube building

 

Stainless header fab can be very challenging, even for an experienced Tig welder. Fit up is everything. Tight fitting joints are key, so spend all the time needed to get the fit-up as perfect as you can. Small tack welds are also key. You know your fit-up is good enough when you can tack them together with no filler without it keyholing on you. DC tig, you will want a machine with high frequency start, and you'll want a foot pedal or be pretty proficient with a finger tip control. Normal tube thickness is 16 or 18 gauge. For either thickness, i usually set my amperage around 140 amps, but will be normally "welding" around 60-90 amps depending on my travel speeds. I backpurge all my welds, its very important on stainless to keep it from "sugaring" on the backside. It also welds much, much better when its backpurged for various reasons. I use a welding positioner (clamps the tube and rotates it for me) as much as possible. Most of us that do high end header builds use positioners for most of the welds whenever possible. That's how we get those crazy consistent perfect looking welds. Doing that "in position" moving around the tube manually and getting them that consistent is almost impossible unless you do it all day every day.
You'll also want to think about getting a gas lens for your torch, it basically gives the weld much more even gas coverage, with less gas contamination. You wont get those perfect rainbow colored welds without one. Also, make sure you are using the proper size tungsten, i would suggest 1/16" diameter for the amperage range you will be welding at for most stainless header fab.

Best advise I have... is to practice... a lot way more than you ever thought you should... before you start making scrap with expensive bends.

 

Build your first set out of mild steel. Odds are once you're finished with them, after awhile there will be something you want to change about them anyways.

 

no need for equal length.

The tubes are all butt welded, no need to size them to fit into each other.

If you're asking these questions, you have a lot of catching up to do before you're ready to make a nice set of stainless headers, is my guess. I made my first set from mild steel, and gas welded them together. They look more traditional that way, too...not like what you find on modern high end builds.

 

Sounds like you need to visit this web site.

Exhaust Components - SPD Home Page B
spdexhaust.com
http://www.spdexhaust.com


I have spent thousands of dollars with them over the years. Top Quality Material to say the least. That's one key to building nice headers. Speedway and other sight that sell cheap pipe just cause you problems if you're not up to speed with your welding. Mig welding headers is not the best idea. You end up with a lot of fall through wire. This causes burn out in short order. Go through Steves web site in depth, it will give you a lot more to think about. Practice Tig welding on some standard exhaust pipe and cut it just past your weld so you can see exactly what you are capable of doing before trying to just build a set, especially if you're going to start out with SS.
Next, buy a Quality saw so your cuts are square and learn to cut dead on the tangent line. Building custom headers can be a lot of fun when things go right. It can also really Piss you off.

 

Look into using "Solar Flux" if you don't want to use a purge gas to protect the back side when using stainless.
It also seems to act like a flux to flow the metal better.
It does leave a glass like coating on the inside so is not a good thing to use ahead of a turbo.

 

If you're young enough, just make your own welders like I did... don't have to worry about none of that...

 

Lots of good advice here.
As far as the tubing goes, for pre-bent radius, for any given dia of tubing, they can only be bent so "tight". Not sure the following can be had in SS, but the advice to do mild steel 1st is very good anyways. So you might look at something called "weld-ells". Heavy-duty tight-radius weldable castiron(iirc) elbows. Great for header-flange port-exits & for turbo headers n such. The other really cool thing(s) & I don't know the actual name, are stamped & welded "donuts". Come in different dia, w/different radius available, Cut for the amount of curve you need.
As far as header design, as Squirrel said, you don't *need* equal-length tubes, may not want them depending on what look/era/effect you're shooting for, aka: header design, 4->1, Tri-Y, Individual "Scavangers", 30's/40's style, Teens' style, etc. Of more importance, is the dia. Search "Headers by Ed", while the info he provides is a mite controversial, it is also *correct*. So, do you want actual "performance" in a range you can use, or do you "want the Look". Either is acceptable, but they are usually not the same nor compatible goals.
Marcus...

 

Not to be a s-a but, by the looks of your questions, they're not for the novice. Building a set of Stainless headers is NOT the place to begin. I've built dozens of headers for cars, trucks and motorcycles. Also did a lot of record setting, custom 2-stroke drag bike pipes from scratch too.

Without knowing your goals or skill level, my advice for the novice is to start out with a simple mild-steel header kit from Speedway, Jeg's or Summit. The hard part will already be done for you. You'll learn a ton just cutting the pipes and getting the angles and radius' right. In fact that alone might discourage you from doing it, if you've never done it before.

You'll need a good cut off saw, angle grinder, die-grinder, and a belt sander for deburring each cut. That alone makes them weld up nice. You might want to get or make a magnetic vise-grip tubing clamp too...

I'd use an Oxy-Acetelene torch and .062" mild-steel rod to weld them up. It is so forgiving and makes an expert out of a novice, plus it's self annealing, stress relieving and easy to fix if you mess up.

That's the first lesson. If you want more, message me and let me know.
I could talk for hours about this subject...

BTW, what are you working on?

 

My two cents if you plan on butt welding your tubes, mild steel or stainless. Cram wadded up water-soluble paper into the tubes about 5 or 6 inches from both sides of the joint to keep your purge gas contained. When my partner and I were welding boiler tubes, we would do that, then fit the joint and tack it. Next, we would fit a basketball needle to our purge line, stick the needle through the top of the joint and flood the inside of the tube with Argon. Our welds always started at the lowest part of the joint and when we got close to the top, we would pull the needle and finish the weld. I've literally done thousands of tube welds like that. It saves a lot of money on Argon. When you're done with all the welds, stick a water hose in one end of each tube and the water-soluble paper will dissolve.

 

Mig , Tig, Gas , Stick .
When Tig & Mig Helps to have multiple
Mini & micro
Flex heads Torch heads for tight welding ,

 

Be aware that the bends from above mentioned marketplaces are Cheap Shit (my personal opinion). When you start cutting in the bend to make profiles you need, notice how the wall thickness changes from the inside to the outside of the tube. Often times less than 1/2 what it started out being. This makes for a lot of fun chasing the burn off if your Mig Welding, bad enough with a Tig. Also, if your Motor they go on has any real Horse Power I've seen the weld seam of those tubes split right through the weld. It pays all the way around to buy Quality material even when you're learning.

 

@Pist-n-Broke is correct !
Brand & material Ga does matter,
& a understanding on how to get angles and radius correct, there's decent videos online, Best to squaring your material off for fitment .

 

Okay guys, I'm going to share something with you here I've never done before. I believe every craftsman has his tricks and things that helps him do his thing. Quality work requires quality equipment and the knowledge to use it right. Then there's the adjustments needed to make them actually do the job you want them to do. We that have done it know you must have a perfect cut for a perfect fit. There's some talk above about what different ones of us use and after, some sanding, grinding or fitting to get things round enough to butt together and be able to weld said joint. I don't ever have to do that step. I get perfect cuts every time, No B,S! It's me saw of choice. It's a Wellsaw bandsaw model 1000. I've had it 45 years and it still makes $$$$ for me and gives me the cuts I need for headers. Look how tight and square these joints are. Every one of them are strait off the saw. Perfect fits.

To do that required some machine work on the Table of the saw. This is a drop arm saw so the blade drops through the table as the cut ends at table surface. There was a relief in the table when I bought it for that. The issue was it was wide and not equal on each side of the blade. The blade I went to is a very tooth extra fine and is 1 full inch tall plus the teeth and .030 thick. I also never use a wavy tooth blade, they will give you headaches. I removed my table from the bottom deck and proceeded to fix the relief in the opening. I made an insert and fully closed the gap. Then found dead center of the saw blade and milled a 5/8" relief in it for the blade to drop through replacing the inch and a quarter one that was off center and not square to the blade. Now I can set the u-bend in the saw vice and rock it a tick until it makes contact on both edges and clamp it in the vice and just cut it and done, move on. Can't get any easier and reliable than that. Look at the ends of those 2 tubes. Never touched them out of the saw. Perfect fits.

You probably noticed the hose clamps. That's all I use to hold all the joints together until it's time to tack. The clamps have a short section of teeth removed so I can tack through the clamp to the pipe. Noting ever moves.
Below are all 8 primary tubes for this set of headers. Flawless seams and pressure tested. as I recall even my welds were all leakproof. That comes from perfect cuts and fits. No gaps to fill.

I will also say a lot of Luck plays into this and they are Not my first set. You too can do this with a little practice and some luck.

 

Thanks for the info.
Marcus...

 

The trick that @Pist-n-Broke mention about the hose clamp with the
Oping /notch /slit helps a lot, You can buy or make yourself,
I have used these , for Tight octopus shaped building ,
Snap together , & 360deg rotation ,
Many OD sizes .. multiple degree pie cuts also available.
""Down fall""
Size specific & are / can be
expensive 2-3 hundred $,,,
What also nice it your unable to weld ,
You can take to a fabricator and have them duplicate your Lego headers.

 

read thru this...I have 2 excellent home made welders... I can use them to fab and weld anything... but.... from what Ive read here , the first step that all ways gets skipped... is learning to weld... melting metal on metal with the idea that when you're done you will grind the welded area is not welding... and even though it sticks together...it's not welded...sent my home made welders to welding school first....

 

NICE!!!!!!

 

This fellow in the UK mainly builds headers for OT race cars, but his work is impeccable and his videos are educational. https://www.youtube.com/@LANCETHEGASS/videos

 

We have those at our exhaust shop... I think the way they work, the more you use them... the less you need to use them.... if that makes sense...

 

@Marty Strode might share again, what he used inside the pipes to weld them.
Something like an inside slip/tight fit, in the tubes, with a ridge? As I recall to weld all 3 pieces together.

 

And this is why the above post is the first one I've done on here or anywhere online. The way I do things isn't the best way or the only way. I kinda feel this is a Hands-On bunch of at home builders that want to DO instead of Pay or Spend. I know the Hose Clamps seem kinda Mickey Mouse, but I've learned most of us have a bucket, box or coffee can full of take offs. They are cheap at least, often times free and most of all Universal to size. I truly don't understand the whole Lego snap together thing, sounds like a lot of $$$$ out the window. Plus, you have to store them somewhere and how many more times will you use them. For most of us this Car thing is a learn as you go, there's always a little bit of cast off and second time around. If you're going to build, Build! Don't spend, spend, spend, then Pay someone else to finish. Building Cars is a continuing Education course that is full hands on, so do hands on. It's like anything you do with your hands, once you get the hang of it no big deal, unless you make it one.

 

@Pist-n-Broke ,Nice job of the pic of header you posted , You do not think time could have been saved / Faster to lay out with header modeling?
Maybe this is what you do every day is build headers ,So you have a eye whats needed.
I am not that young now , I just want to get things finished ,
Header Modeling Not for every one
When most here are just doing a car or two with same O engine combo's thats been done many times over & over with same parts , There is modern simple Technology that can cut time in 1/2 , & save on material taking the guess out of Knowing whats needed ..
Just a few examples for mild complex headers, My Legos / header modeling
Are left on shelf until I am doing / need a radical header or set, H-R , full tube Chassis or relative waiting to stuffing a
427 side oiler down into Ot micro car .


There is a build thread on here ,
Where the owner / builder has used a Cad / 3D
To build a basic roadster with Sbc thats been done Thousands of times since 1965-to present , Builder could of saved time & $ just using Quality parts
Like Pete/Jakes & other ,
Its a Nice built roadster ,
Not trick or exotic parts .

 

Might just be the Generation Gap and how you learn to do what you do and how well it works for ya. When I started Cad programs didn't exist, and Lego's hadn't been invented yet. I feel if you're a true Craftsman and know what you're doing the more complex the job just means spending a little more time determining how to execute it. Next is deciding if you're up to the job at hand. There's a Start point and a finished point. What's in-between is just the job. I'm really glad I'm retired now. I don't work anymore; I just spend the day doing what I choose to enjoy doing. I have 2 more sets of Headers to build. One for this.

And one for this. Noting real exotic or difficult.

 

I wouldn't recommend starting out building out of stainless, but if you do, use Solar Flux as has been mentioned. I am self taught, and have build a minimum of 40 sets through the years. My advice is buy extra J-bends in different radius to get started, and you can stare it down, or start cutting the bends up so you have pieces to lay out the shape and path you are looking for. Building "Step" headers is also a good way to start, as the pieces slip together and can rotate the joints to make the final fit. The one picture you will notice the crusty old stainless hose clamp, that has 3- 5/16" hold drilled in it. That is something I came up with that allows you rotate and hold the joint while tacking it together. They sell those clamps with vice grip handles, but they are worthless when you are in a curved section,. Here are some samples of my work. .

 

Hey Marty, what`s the purpose of the bulbous tubes on the plane engine, expansion?

 

Yes, those bulbs are formed and pressed together, and won't crack due to expansion.