Hot Rods Steering stabilizer vs pan hard bar...

you my friend I have zero respect for... but you can earn it...

 

Now now kids, lets not drag this in to an argument over a lump of metal bolted to another lump of metal.

We can believe what we want about this and that, the truth is in the DOING.

Only then one can learn for themselves the real solution for their own automotive dilemma.

 

care to explain???? what happens if you take the panhard bar off??? and just asking but doesn't the front axel go both straight up and down, and also at an arc at the same time??? this the reason for evolution of independent suspension...isn't there by design ,3 or more opposing differant arc's of travel ?? that become acceptable because of the limited wheel travel...

 

A Panhard bar is one of several possible lateral locating devices. Others are a Watt's linkage, a WOBlink, a Mumford link, and a Satchell link/triangulated 4-bar. There are others. You might want to Google them, or follow my links. It's interesting stuff once you get into it.

All of them have the job of keeping the axle from moving sideways, or rather, defining the path the axle takes when moving up and down and/or rotating relative to the car, so that if there's a sideways component to that it's a specific known movement.

You use a Panhard bar to constrain the movement of the axle relative to the car to one specific geometry and no other. Because of that you're also setting the roll centre. It's not something you add to help a bit with anything; it's part of the defining geometry of the suspension. Without it, the suspension geometry is partly undefined, an incomplete linkage which, in theory at least, can wobble all over the place.

Is a stock early Ford front axle's geometry undefined without a Panhard bar? Not quite: but what is going on there is more complex than it might seem. The car is sitting on the spring, and the spring is hanging from the axle by the shackles in a sort of sling- or hammock-like arrangement. That has a number of effects and some severe limitations, too. I tried to explain it here: https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/tranverse-springs-tech-info.1112840/page-7#post-12686977

 

I disagree with you on a band aid on my dead perch here is a picture of one of my race cars that won quite a few races with a dead perch. Gary

 

NOTE -

"Panhard" is one word, and it needs a capital letter...
It's the original designers last name.

Mike

 

I don't think you spelled the name right...

 

one must think of the differant uses,.. as in... you don't need muck boats,,,, till....

 

Looks right to me

Ben

 

with a pan hard direct to the frame and axel..... on road conditions, you could still get extreme shock to the steering wheel... so if the ill effects of extreme conditions arise.... one might find damping helpfull.... and if your fingers are inside the chrome steering wheel when it gets jerked out of your grip and cuts you finger.... a band aid to stop the leaking blood work be an easy fix

 

2 wrongs don't make a right...

 

René Panhard.

 

I wouldn't add a panhard bar to the list. A panhard bar is an absolute necessity in certain situations such as frontends with coilovers. Need to have a panhard bar to keep an axle centered or you're not leaving the driveway. But a steering damper or stabilizer is not needed at all. If it was then all those old cars/trucks with solid front axles would have had one from the factory.

 

My first straight axle swap was on my 1957 Chev my senior year of high school. I had never done one before, and had no idea what I was doing, but asked around to guys and was told to find a 1955-'59 Chev truck axle, and '49-'54 car drums to put under my '57 Chevy.
I also had no welder, so I built all my mounts in metal shop class in school, and made them all as a bolt in kit. Once bolted in I used a steering arm off my old suspension from the driver's side to bolt to the upper passenger side, and then cut and welded up pieces from the old A arm steering to make my drag link. It took me a week to do and when I was done and it sat on the ground I was really proud of what I'd built!
Then I jumped in and headed down the street for a test drive, and once I hit the main street with 35 mph speeds it was all over the road, and scared the heck out of me! I envisioned having to tear it all out and put my old suspension back in and having to buy parts I dissected and ruined! I asked everyone I knew who was a hotrodder, and got nothing but blank stares.
A week later I drove past a local alignment shop and a gentleman in his late 70''s was working on a late 50's Chevy truck! I figured he might know a lot and maybe he could fix my mess! I pulled in and told him what I'd done, and he began asking me questions about kingpin angles, and toe in, and a few other things, none of which I knew the answer too because I was too stupid to even consider those things. He told me to bring the '57 by someday, so I told him I'd be right back!
I got home and quickly returned with my '57 and he brought out his angle finder, and his toe in measurement tool. He chuckled when he read kingpin angles and told me mine was a minus degree, not positive! And said my toe in was zero, not even slightly toed in! He walked back in his shop and brought out a pair of 7 degree shims and showed me which way they needed to go. Then showed me how to adjust toe in at 1/8"-3/16" by using a pair of sticks taped together to compare front side to rear. He told me to go home and fix it myself as it was easy, and I needed to learn.
I spent maybe an hour or two doing the fix, and hit the road again. By the time I did the 1/2 mile to his shop I was thrilled to death with how well it handled! I spent numerous hours after that helping him out whenever I could at no charge just to thank him, and to learn more about alignment work.
I also began fabricating bolt in kits for '55-'57 Chevy cars using '55-'59 Chev truck axles. The axles were cheap and plentiful, and the local old GM parts place had lots of drums for the 5 bolt swap. I made up a half dozen kits based on my plans, and sold them at a nice profit. Most guys wanted me to help with the installation also, and that made even more money to put into my hotrods. It was a nice gig until I ran out of old donor axles, and graduated high school and lost access to the metal shop. And of course a year later got drafted anyway, so it all halted for a couple years.

 

You "could" be right.
Show me (us) proof.

Mike

 

There has been some very good information shared in this thread. Unfortunately, it has been ignored.
Anyone heard of the Dunning-Kruger Effect? Mr. Dunning and Mr. Kruger really knew their shit......

 

Did you get the answer you were after or was the whole point just to argue? Seems like you know the answer that you wanted to receive in the first place, so what was the point?

 

Well, of course not! But two right is STILL right.

Ben

 

M: ... I came here for an argument!!

A: OH! Oh! I’m sorry! This is abuse!

M: Oh! Oh I see!

A: Aha! No, you want room 12A, next door.

M: Oh…Sorry…

A: Not at all!

 

correct...

 

such as???

 

I stand corrected....

 

But two Wrights made an airplane.

 

If we're going to challenge spelling in these threads you might want to rethink how you spelled "differant".

 

It takes a certain amount of cognitive ability to realise you're stupid.
So a person that knows he's stupid is actually smarter than somebody that is really stupid [that's usually the group that thinks they're smarter than everybody else]

There was another thread here about "Panhard bars" that got taken down recently , when some fool was trying to misinterpret/hijack the whole thread and he ended up posting a xenophobic rant.[and pissing people off]

I remember it being bounced from being called Track Bars to Track Rods, and Panhard Bars [when Panhard Bar is the only correct terminology]

Some people need to slow down and read what has actually been written instead of firing off on a "kneejerk rebuttal"

 

i said before - to get this back 'on track' pun intended we need to go to the 'watts link' and get everybody riled!

 

This should explain it.

 

You do know it was the same dude, right???......

 

Is that the only one you found?