Technical Extreme ergonomic failure. Ramming your elbow into the bucket seat back bolster when banging 2nd ?

I searched and did find a discussion or two elsewhere about hitting your elbows against the seat back bolsters when steering. But nothing about this. Apparently an obscure subject.
Leave it to me.

Anyway... it might seem kind of dumb, and the answers might be obvious to everybody except me, but it's a genuine concern. At the very least, maybe some of you will get a chuckle out of my Laurel and Hardy ways.

I was sitting in my Plymouth Coupe, checking the fit of my early '20s Dodge unupholstered "bucket" seats.
Ok... I was screwing around, making engine sounds and air shifting the 4spd floor shifter. I brought the r's up in first gear just fast enough to get a faint squeal of protest from the rear tires. Boy, that 440's got torque.
And then I speed shifted into second gear at full throttle!
BAM!
It was awesome.

But I didn't just bang second gear. I banged my elbow/back of my arm against the bare wooden frame of the seat back.
BAM!
And I had a "sudden realization".
Certain types of bucket seats could pose a problem as far as this goes. Especially a wrap around type seat back. Especially if there's a hard frame just underneath whatever little upholstery is in that area. Especially if you've set up your seating and shifter position so that you don't have to lean forward with your shoulder off the seat back in order to reach first and third gear
(as I obviously did)

Seems it could almost be unavoidable. And what a shame when you really just want to bang gears with abandon.

Thoughts?
Answers?
Stories?
Thanks, guys.

Side note:
An acquaintance in high school had an orange big block 4 speed Super Bee. Ted was his name. Big guy. One day he was showing us his bloody knuckles that he got from a hard shift from 2nd to 3rd and ramming his fist into the radio.

 

Short throw shifter helps.
When I was a kid dad borrowed a white ‘62 GMC farm truck known as the ghost to make a few dump runs. My brother and I were excited to tag along until we found out that whoever sat in the middle of the bench seat got the shifter in their crotch in 2nd gear, which was about as high as the straight six and 3 speed could handle with a load

I had to move the wiper switch on my cobra because I would hit it shifting to 3rd and turn the wipers on at the track.

 

Funny Bone. Not!

 

Seems to me, anything similar to this could be a problem.


Much better, I think.

 

Must have been a funny seating position

 

In my experience, a long/tall shift lever in first gear can be more of a reach than a shorter/lower shift lever. But the throw from 1st to 2nd will be shorter too so your elbow doesn't go past your ribcage.
I've rebent a few shift levers for friends and customers, even chrome sticks with no problems.
Sometimes you need something custom and not something off the shelf.
Side-shot photos of the lever in first and second would be pretty dang helpful for those of us who dispense free advice.

 

"Stories".. see this video of Bill ("Grumpy") Jenkins approx. at 6 minutes...
His seat is probably "stock" however he certainly would've had a constant SORE right elbow...may he (R.I.P.)

 

Farm truck with a granny gear that no one used. Shift like a 3 speed, but 2nd would be first.

 

Be careful of the shift knob there, sweetheart.

Bill Jenkins. Four-speed shifter extraordinaire. I'm pretty sure he would've been even more grumpy if he had a wrap around bucket seat.

 

I ask for advice from some of the shift wizards here and the @The Shift Wizard shows up.
Thanks, Mr. Wizard.

I agree.
Shorter shifter rod.
Short throw shifter.
Positioned well.
And as I'm suggesting, no wrap around bucket seats.

You really bent chromed shift rods without cracking the chrome? Interesting. Did you heat it first as normal?

My setup doesn't presently exist. It's a pile of parts. But I'm trying to think ahead and this particular issue unexpectedly became apparent.

1931 Plymouth


A-body A-833


Early '20s Dodge seats.

 

I was thinking of using a bench seat. But for a handful of reasons, I'm now thinking bucket seats. My A-body transmission has the shifter intruding just a little ways into where the front of a bench seat would be. I could change to a b-body tail shaft housing to move the shifter forward. But because the shift rod can be bent and the shift ball/handle positioned just about anywhere, it doesn't matter much except that the further forward the shifter mechanism is, the longer the shift rod has to be. And I wouldn't really be able to use a bench seat.

So I guess with everything else being variable, the main issue here is the type of bucket seats used.

 

The shift lever could be placed further forward, necessitating having to lean further forward to shift. That would avoid any possible contact with the seat. But it wouldn't be very comfortable.

 

It was many years ago so my recollection is a bit rusty-crusty. But the details that I recall are I was young and didn't tend to overthink, I used 'no heat', probable Hurst or original factory chrome lever (Good quality chrome and definitely not aftermarket skimpy-quality.) I make no other claims or guarantees. I've never made parts for NASA rockets, etc.
I used a heavy-duty bench vise with 3 brass blocks to 3-point crush the bends. There were no issues with the chrome that I could see but I can't speak to how it held up long-term because it was someone else's shifter who drove off into the sunset never to darken my towels again.
That was the only drastic bending I ever did. I tweaked a few others that were only subtle, broad curves for minor adjustments of knob placement.

 

Hello,

When we were in metal shop/auto shop in high school, I was the “go to guy” who had time to make custom products. I had already finished my required shop projects and afterwards, we were able to set out a custom project if it was presented properly. Sometimes, it was word of mouth, with a crudely drawn design. Other times, it looked like a term paper print, with an art drawing, measurements and a photo if there was one available.

Both shop teachers liked me and my projects. The metal shop teacher said I had talent, although I could not “arc weld” a lick in a straight line. If I had a mask/goggle where I could see, then, perhaps my arc welding projects would have been good. Those goggle/face masks were so dark that I could not see until the arc flash lit up the project. By then, I could not get a good bead to pass the test or two or three. It was poor each time and I got a passable grade, so I could move on to the next project. Welding with the new “arc welding machine” was not going to be my future, so other projects took over.

I liked to be able to see a problem, set up some alternatives and figure out which one was going to be the best way to get the job done. My friend wanted a floor shifter in his 51 Pontiac sedan. We made several mock up versions on a transmission we brought into class. By using cardboard and metal scraps, we put together a mock up that fit, but needed adjustments.

Jnaki

Eventually, his want was a long floor shifter lever and we had to adjust it to fit. The first mock up was a disaster, as it hit the dash on shifting. The next curving model we made barely hit the dash, but scraped the seat. So, finally a middle ground using the bending machine was the way to go for our mock up design.

After seeing the cool, tall floor shifter lever in the Pontiac, my friend with the newly installed 4 speed in his 57 Chevy Bel Air Hardtop was interested in making a curved lever to get it away from the stock seat. The 4 speed was not standard equipment in any 57 Chevy sedan. So, we had to install it in the hole and move stuff around to get it to fit. But, once the transmission brackets were in place, the last step was to make a bending lever to be upright, but curve just enough to clear the shifter knob to the seat. The standard 4 speed lever was curved, but it was so close that a hard shift was a knuckle crunching thing.

Now, a slightly curving lever was created and after several tries, it fit perfectly. It was a good thing out metal shop had plenty of rods we could use for the odd shaped, but functional levers. YRMV

Note:

No need to think of a bench seat. We had nothing but bench seats in our cars. That was a trick the auto manufacturers played on the general public. That almost 90 degree back angle that could not adjust probably was the cause for all of the bad back problems in our society, that along with beer, tv and snacks.

So, the foreign car bucket seats with full back adjustability will make anything in the interior suitable for comfort and create a nice space between the seats.

Even if the shifter is located to the far left (not politically) on the transmission, the shift lever/rod can be custom adjusted as to the curve or shape to clear any impediments to enjoying stick shift cars.

Make a mock up lever with some left over rods and just see if it clears. You might have to do several bends to get it right. Then finally, make a final stage to get chromed. If the transmission bracket shift lever is threaded, then installing your practice bend unit is simplified.

Note2 :
I had a column shift 3 speed transmission. I wanted a 4 speed, also. But, time and money was a drawback. The 3 speed on the floor was a first for any Impala and we made models that could have fit. But, then our mom got us to have an automatic transmission for the Impala and that changed the whole program for the interior.

No more floor shifter ideas as the original column shift lever was used to shift the C&O Stick Hydro in all gears. It looked like a stock stick shift car. But, instead of shifting through the 3 speed gears, one flick and all of the gears were in play, automatically. Or, I could have manually shifted each gear.
The white shift ball on the end of the shifting lever. Auto or manual? Only the 6 red Impala taillights showing in the windshield of the other car told the truth… ha!

 

Thanks, @jnaki
You always put a lot into your replies. I appreciate you spending time and effort on me and sharing your stories from the past.
I'll come up with something that'll work and look good.

 

This is the shifter in my 48 Plymouth coupe.
Its been modified to clear the seat. Its been modified to clear the dash. It's been modified 3 times to clear the increasing size of my wife's coffee mug (I think it holds a quart of coffee now, also required modifying the cup holder). The shift into 2nd brings the handle between the two cup holders, 4th is barely towards her side of her cup holder. Fortunately, the OD 5th gear is towards the dash.

Shifters are bent, one bend at a time and tested after cooling slowly. The last coffee cup modification took nearly all day. I told her that one was the last time. The coffee cup had to fit in the car from then on.

 

TorqueFlite; won't be banging your elbow pushing buttons.

 

Wow, a story that needs some changes…

Hello,

Coffee cup/water bottle holders are a comfort item. Easy to reach and when necessary, easy to replace into the holding spaces without having to look at a target and zoom into the awaiting hole.

Originally, they weren’t a part of any car let along hot rods. But, over time convenience took over. Some of the original versions included under-dash pop out or slide out brackets that hold the various cups/bottles. The as the factories realized it was an item that sold more cars, the placement on the dash became creative. But, at least, the cups/holders were away from the driver.

Soon, some designers decided that if the hole was closer to the driver, perhaps, two would be better and no more dash mounts or slide out mounts. Since you do not have a center console, places are limited. But, your placement behind the stick shift lever is not a great place. Yes, it is closer to the driver, but the bracket is in a place that takes your eyes off of the road ahead and surroundings for the short time it takes to put the item back in the hole(s). or even reaching for the bottles/coffee cups, etc.

In looking at safety, the console holes are part of the picture. Some have even incorporated arm rests between the bucket seats to get them away from the shifter. These days there are more automatic shifters and not stick shift levers. But, all is not to cram in a couple of holders as close to the seats as possible.

Jnaki

For safety sake and not have to worry about hitting one of these common sizes with the shift lever, perhaps moving the holders to the side of the hump.

If you have a thermal container, at least it has a locking cap for safety and if moved away from the stick shift lever, it stays one step ahead of the Styrofoam cups, for tipping or spilling.

Perhaps, one of these slimline versions can be incorporated into the side of the center hump, away from the shifter, for ease of access and no spills when shifting.

It would be on the passenger side. Nothing should be on the driver’s side. Or one of these dual hole items for the passenger side only. YRMV

 

We sir, are from different eras. I got my drivers license in 1972 at age 16, I was born in 1956. The challenges you faced as a teen driver were not the issues we had as a teen driver. I thank your generation for solving those problems for us.

That said, it offends me a bit that you believe that simply having cup holders in my vehicles creates a safety issue while I drive. Before I started driving, I knew of a lot of guys that held a cup of coffee (or what ever was in their cup) in one hand (or between their legs) while they drove their manual transmission vehicle. It was not safe nor pretty most of the time. I at least have a safe place to put my drink when I decide to run through the gears.

The shifter and the drink holders have been in that car for 100,000 + miles. There have been no accidents since then, and they were installed as the car was being built. Maybe the first 1,000 miles or so I may have taken my eyes off the road for a second or two, but it didn't take very long to become acquainted with where the drink cup was. The fact is, when I am driving, I seldom drink anything while I drive. The cup holder is there for a drink when I'm at a traffic light or stopped for some reason.

The entire purpose of showing the shifter along with the cup holder was to show that the shift handle can be bent to clear things show the power shifting can be done without injury.

 

Here are my cup holders in the 40 Pontiac.We never smoked so I hung them on the ash trays and they stii work for a little storage. Gary

 

How about coming at it from the OTHER direction and modify the edge of the seat? Maybe carve down the INNER edges of BOTH seats to increase elbow room? Since they're currently unupholstered, you wouldn't have to worry about "taking the whole dang thing apart and getting new covers!" that would be required otherwise.

Just a different perspective on the problem.

OR

Do both - modify the seat AND the shifter.

Good luck!

 

Dave's thinkin'.
Thanks, @davidvillajr
You're right. The configuration of the seat will make the difference. As it is, the shifter mechanism will be just into the front of the seats. Perfect for bucket seats and a very short shifter that's close at hand that I don't have to lean forward to reach.
Just gotta watch out for those hard as rock (wood) seat bolsters.
Trimming the bolsters could help. I'd have to be careful not to take out too much and undermine the structural integrity.
But I think it won't be necessary. If I use those old seats, I think that as long as I fill 'em up enough with foam and upholstery, it would move me forward and the bolsters wouldn't stick out and be an issue.
Or I could use the other seats I posted. Meant for Jeep CJ's starting in the mid 60s.
I like 'em.

 

First thing that popped into my head. Lockup Torqueflite ( '66 + up )
That 413 will give ya rubber on demand.
I loved playing with them as a kid, when my job gave me the opportunity.
I get the seat deal I wish that I could use the bench,
but my lady and I require conflicting positions, for comfortable seating.

 

440. Even more rubber.

A Torqueflite would definitely get the job done and simplify things. But, you know...

Conflicting seating positions.
Forgot to mention that part,
@Tow Truck Tom
Yeah, bucket seats remedy that problem.
And with me at only 5'8", if @HOTRODPRIMER. ever rides in my coupe, I better not have a bench seat.

 

You could put a spring in the bolster, cusion for your elbow and making 3rd an expedient adventure Lol

 

Not sure what transmission you have, but if it has external levers on the side of the case, as was a common style of the time, you can remove the rods and bushings, and drill holes closer to the pivots, and put it back together.

This will amplify the throw of the shift lever, meaning that you will need to move it less in order to complete the shift.



As cheap as the correct-size drill bit.

 

Maybe its just me, but I suspect that if you should encounter the seat, or the dash while shifting, it won't take very long for you to adjust your position, or how you go about the shift process to correct the problem.

Kind of like that guy that went to the Dr on the Hee Haw TV show all those years ago. "Hey Doc, if I do this, it hurts here. What can you do about that?" The Doc hits him over his head with his hat and says "Well, DON"T do that anymore!"

If your power shifting and your elbow hits the edge of the seat, stick your elbow up in the air a bit more until it misses the seat. You may have to be careful how high you raise your elbow though.

 

Get the shifter right and use one of these, nothing else matters!