Will this grease oil work for the t86/r10 transmission. I'm having a hard time finding gl-1 where I live. 80W90 Lucas Heavy-Duty Plus Gear Oil 10043-1
In the US, Sta Lube is a brand to look for. From NAPA and others. Also, these suburban "Farm" stores got that kind of stuff. You got any places like that? I like GL-1, but I bet about anything is good enough.
I know Tractor Supply has GL-1, labeled for use in Ford "2N/8N/9N" tractors and similar. My understanding is just about any 80W-90 should be fine for your trans and OD, just make sure it is labeled as yellow metal safe; as you likely have brass syncros and maybe bushings.
GL-1 gear oil is pretty much non-additized mineral oil. Often they recommend against using a modern GL-5 gear oil (which most multi-grade gear oils are) because the EP additive can be aggressive to yellow metals, such as bronze synchros, and/or any bronze or brass bushings. Heavy duty trucks moved from using straight grade gear oils in manual shift transmissions to straight grade engines oils decades ago, and have since moved on to more specialized fluids, but you could use a straight grade SAE 50 engine oil instead of a SAE 90 GL-1 gear oil in your older manual shift trans, it will lubricate the trans very well with no EP additives to attack yellow metals. Another good option would be any fluid meeting the Cat TO-4 gear oil spec, and almost all lubricant companies have their version. You could buy Cat's branded version at a Cat dealership, and they are pretty much everywhere; or most any tractor dealer with a parts dept will carry TO-4 spec fluid. Again, SAE 50 will be about the right viscosity, maybe a little heavy, if shifting is sluggish when cold you could go to SAE 30. Don't be confused by the different viscosity grades, SAE engine oils and SAE gear oils use different ranges for their vis grades. An SAE 90 gear oil is about the same actual viscosity as an SAE 40 to 50 engine oil. And SAE 80 gear oil falls in the range of SAE 20 to 30 engine oil.
I see NAPA has GL-1 90 gear oil: https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/NHF...&ranSiteID=TnL5HPStwNw-r8Z9L08yJBpLicqV8uInHA And O'Reilly's has TO-4 50 drivetrain oil: https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/...-transmission-fluid-sae50-5-gallon/oro0/80100
That's GL-5. That should only be used with hypoid gears, or where no brass or bronze is present. The high Sulphur content in the "Extreme Pressure (EP)" additive package will erode the syncros over time. Many swear that they have never had problems. They just have not waited long enough. Don't gamble.
I don’t know if it would be applicable here, but in my Saginaw SM-326, I used Valvoline Synchromesh oil. I also used it yesterday in an O/T Chevy 1500 with a freshly rebuilt NV-3500 at work.
The gear oil API grade issue is one where the statement "the plural of anecdote is not data" holds true. Not all synchronizers and bushings are made to the same standard. Quite a few of them are demonstrably heavier than they need to be. These can withstand erosion for far longer than those that are made to a lesser standard. The "success" that may have experienced using GL-5 where it is not appropriate may very well be do to exactly this. Others may not be so lucky. Just because you have not yet experienced a failure does not mean you won't, or that others won't. Finding the correct lubricant is not hard, but then again, neither is giving bad advice.
Not saying, that the GL5 debate is actually true or not, just have not been convinced as of yet. I have never seen in person, or in an image a yellow metal part (syncro ring) that was alleged to be degraded by GL 5 oil, along with the chemical analysis of the oil to prove GL5 was in the transmission. Is it 5,000 miles or 100,000 miles before the damage is done?? Prior to the GL4-GL5 debate, I have built many manual transmissions and used GL5 in them. Never had any transmissions ever come back with premature failure of syncro rings. I will say that I error on the side of caution and use GL4 due to all the internet hype, but am not really convinced. Would really like to see Some real life hard evidence on the GL5 issue, not just hearsay or supposed lab results in some extreme test of not the real world. Bill
Very thankfully basic chemistry doesn't mind if you are convinced it exists. Your witness is not necessary. GM had to replace thousands of NWC T5's transmissions under warranty due to this very issue.
Each viscosity grade includes a range of actual measured viscosity, it isn't a single spec, it's a range. First, let me mention how viscosity is measured in a lab. A sample of the oil is placed in a vessel and that vessel is placed in a heated water bath to bring it up to temperature (for SAE vis grades that temp is 100C). Once the oil reaches the right temperature it is released from the vessel and allowed to flow through an orifice of a specific size over a specific distance. The time it takes the oil to flow through the orifice and over the measured distance is recorded. Lower viscosity oil = shorter time to flow, higher viscosity = longer time to flow. The results are reported as Centistokes (or cSt) (you may also see them reported as SUS, an older system that has been superceded by cSt). So, each SAE viscosity grade covers a range of viscosity measurements. For instance an SAE 20 can be as low as 5.6 centistokes (cSt) up to <9.3 cSt. SAE 30 starts at 9.3cSt and can go up to <12.9 cSt. SAE 80 gear oil can be anywhere from 8.02 cSt up to <11.0 cSt. So an SAE gear oil can be as low as an SAE 20 engine oil, or it can be as high an SAE 30, and still be within acceptable range for SAE 80. I hope that makes sense. Maybe the chart below will help.
Note: the technical definition of "Viscosity" is "resistance to flow". A lower visc fluid has less resistance to flow, a higher vis fluid has greater resistance to flow.
I've been using Pennzoil Synchromesh in a '85 T5 for years without any issue but I don't know how your transmission compares. PRODUCT DESCRIPTION Pennzoil® Synchromesh fluid is a manual transmission fluid designed for certain manual trans axles and manual transmissions used by general motors or Chrysler. Excellent yellow metal compatibility Meets GM specification 9985648 and Chrysler specification MS-9224 Excellent synchronizer performance Exhibits excellent low-temperature performance
The question was, gear oil for an older 3 speed with a Borg Warner overdrive. Folks have lost the scent. Different trail
Separate and distinct issue. BOTH were a problem. Galled plain bores on gears, and compromised main shafts were from running ATF instead of proper gear lube. Wiped syncros, especially 2nd gear, which is the most engaged of all of them, are from GL-5. The Heritage Center records department has a few hundred memos about both ATF and GL-5.
Exactly, an as this is not a difficult product to acquire, nor it is it particularly expensive, the arguing over basic chemistry remains pointless.
We’re asked this question frequently. The original spec for the Ford overdrive transmissions was 90 weight gear oil and the GL-1 specification was what was printed in the service manual from 1949 well into the 1950’s. Since these times, the gear oil producers have improved the oils and moved up to GL3, then GL4, and now GL5. The concern seems to be with the GL5 oils having additives in the oil that can cause premature breakdown of the yellow metals in the transmission (ie synchro rings and thrust washers). Not all GL5 oils are formulated this way. We recommend checking with the supplier (or carefully reading the manufacturer specifications) to ensure that their own product is okay for yellow metals. The Penzoil product mentioned above seems to confirm that this product is safe to use with the older transmissions. I believe StaLube is another. I’m sure there are other refiners making a similar product. So, you could use the GL-1 gear oil but I feel that you would lose the benefits of the additives of the later 3 or 4 or 5 oils that improve the shifting action. Today’s GL1 is basically tractor gear oil…..adequate but lacking in the additives that help with the synchonizers of the newer products.
For a "simple" gearbox like a transmission or a transfer case that lacks clutches of any sort I would have no qualms about using a motor oil of comparable viscosity to the recommended gear oil.
Well, I'm running a Borg Warner T-85 with a R-11 overdrive and if you look in the manual for these overdrive units they recommend SAE 40W or 50W motor oil. They go on to say that in high temp and heavy duty use you can use a 80W gear oil. Now this manual is for the overdrive not the transmission but in this manual they talk about how the oil is common between overdrive and transmission. I don't think the OP said what 3 speed transmission he has (the Borg Warner overdrives were behind many different brand transmissions) but the overdrive manual includes other than Ford wiring diagrams so It looks like the type of transmission does not matter. Sorry I went back and saw that he has the T-86 and R-10
https://www.oldwillysforum.com... Here is the link to the manual, If it work, you will find the info on oil on the last few pages
Like I posted above, the HD truck industry moved to SAE 50 engine oil for manual shift transmissions decades ago. These days they've moved on to more specialized oils, but for an old 3 speed transmission or OD a stright grade 50 engine oil would be a fine choice. It would contain a better additive package than a Gl-1 gear lube. A TO-4 oil would also be a great choice for the same reasons, maybe even slightly better additive package for a transmission/gear box, with more anti-wear additives.
As the chart I posted above, and then arse-sidewards posted another version of just above your post, 80W gear oil is actually less viscous than 40 or 50 motor oil. BTW, there's no W used after 40 or 50, the W signifies an oil designed for "Winter", or has good cold temp flow, there are no SAE 40W or 50W oils. W doesn't stand for "Weight".
The Jalopy Journal
