Got around to testing the wiring for my speedster project that I completed about a year ago. Wanted to check out the engine starter to make sure it all worked. Had some issues with some errors I had made, but noticed that the 6V solenoids that I used were both making a lot of noise when “engaged”. One is for the engine starter and the other is used for my radiator cooling fan. Engine is a Ford flathead C59A. Starter was rebuilt and remains 6V. Both solenoids are “Standard” P/N SS558. They are supposed to be for 6V systems. The issue is that when engaged, they make a rapid “clicking” noise. The battery was new a few years ago, but was not maintained. The engine has never ran after it was rebuilt about 5 years ago. The electrical system is a 6V neg ground one. However, when I was looking up the specs on the solenoids, I came across a review on the Summit site. The person mentioned they (solenoids) are intended for a 6V positive ground system. When reading the instructions that came with the original box, it mentions a test procedure to determine if the case is grounded or insulated. I performed the test, and it would imply my solenoid cases are insulted. I assumed they were grounded. The mounting tabs for the solenoids are bolted to my metal battery box which in turn is bolted to a plate which has a large gauge (1/0) ground wire bolted to it directly from the battery (-) post. The engine block is also grounded to the same bolt using a (1/0) cable. The starter also has a (1/0) gauge cable going to it from the solenoid terminal. The other solenoid terminal has a (1/0) gauge wire going to the battery (+) post. So, there should be no issues with wire sizes and voltage drops. Voltage at battery was about 6.5V. I did load test the battery, and the meter shows it is in a “weak” state, but still can crank over motor, albeit at a slow speed. So, question is are the solenoids no good to use in my 6V neg ground system, or can I somehow make them work. To me, the instructions are not that clear.
Didn’t check that. Was wondering the same. Battery is on battery charger (old school “dumb” charger) right now (overnight). For $hits and giggles, just before wrapping up, I powered the solenoid coil with all the large stud (power) wires disconnected. Used a jumper wire directly from battery (+) terminal to small stud for solenoid coil. Nothing. Solenoid was not engaging. This would make sense if solenoid casing is not grounded but insulated. I’m familiar with the standard automotive relay (4-wite) which has a (+) and (-) for the solenoid coil, but this solenoid just has the one wire for the solenoid coil.
I’m thinkin possible bad relay or low voltage . I was always told the 3 terminal was for electronic ign , no full voltage is needed to ign coil , while cranking as it is needed in point ign., from the “ I” terminal on the relay .
Did you notice the plunger button of the relay ? What happens if you push the plunger or does it not move ? I have never seen this on a relay before .
yeah. Pressed the “button” on the bottom but not sure if anything happened. I’ll have re-check. Sure the issue is because the “case” is insulated. Need a jumper wire like they show on the instructions, but they only she the “4-terminal” version of the solenoid.
Maybe I missed something in your explanation of how you have things wired; but that model solenoid should have one large terminal marked "BAT" which obviously goes to the battery, the other large terminal goes to the starter, and the small terminal goes to a grounding style starter button to actuate the solenoid. Push button is for manual operation; like bumping the motor over without having to use starter button on dash. That is not a continuous duty solenoid and will not be suitable for a cooling fan relay.
Well, since the instructions you posted don't match the solenoid you have I looked up the solenoid pn. It seems to be a standard (for the tractor world) solenoid that expects the activation circuit to be a grounding switch. Most car solenoids expect power to be applied to the small terminal. This one has that post hot, internally connected to the Battery post. So providing a ground to the small one causes it to activate. Long way to say that the 'chatter' when activated is probably due to a bad ground in the switch wiring. Similar to the same symptom when a 'normal' solenoid has low voltage provided to the coil.
Agree. I think I know what to do now, but on the road. I think a need a jumper wire from the “BATT” terminal to the “S” terminal, and a wire from that terminal to the ign push-bottom switch, and then a ground wire from that switch. Sort of backwards to my current set-up. Will be home soon.
Problem solved! There is continuity between the “BATT” terminal and “S” terminal. So, no need for a jumper wire between the two. Signal for solenoid coil must be switched to Ground as mentioned. Had to flip the solenoids “upside down” to have battery (+) wires reach the “BATT” terminals on the solenoid. Ran a wire from the “S” terminal on the starter solenoid to the “BATT” terminal on my Bosch IGN switch, then wired the opposite terminal on the Bosch switch to my push-button IGN switch, then a ground wire from that switch to the battery (-) post. Coil works perfectly. No noice/chatter. Think my battery is still weak even though it was on the charger all night. Load tester still shows it is weak. Will try to charge more today, but think it is finished. Engine still cranks over very slowly.
Yeah, it does. lol! Now that the solenoids have been flipped, the button is on top and easier to get to.
he is saying it is always loaded on the spring--a long time from now,the contact disc could touch the studs--but you'll be dead
I was wondering about that. Did look for info on mtg info, but didn’t come across anything. My whole setup is a mock-up anyways for the moment. Can always reverse orientation when I do the actual installation.
First I have to question why anyone would switch a 6 volt Flathead Ford electrical system to negative ground. That I would like to see an honest answer for. Second, Stock Ford 6 volt solenoids that work with a push button go to ground they do not make a hot wire connection to activate the starter. This image being a 5o's Ford or Mercury push button starter button that clearly goes to ground.
When I started looking into the wiring of my speedster project a few years back, I did look into keeping it positive ground. Being unfamiliar with the concept, I got lots of help from folks on here. Then, IIRC, it was suggested that it was as simple as just “swapping” the battery cables to go to a negative ground system. So, that’s essentially what I did. I did keep everything 6V when most would have upgraded to 12V. Even my electric cooling fan is 6V as a result. Maybe not the smartest decision to go along with 6V, but I’m also interested in trying to keep things as “vintage” as possible. This is not a “Ford” resto speedster. The only Ford vintage aspect of my speedster build is the C59A flathead, banjo diff, and a few other bits.
Used a similar Cole-Hersee relays for the speed-up system on garbage trucks and replaced scores of them in the '70s and into the early '80s; most common feature to the failed solenoids was upside down mounting. There is also the idea of mounting things the right way.
When I get to point of finishing my project, I’ll flip them, but will also call the tech line at Standard to see what they say next week as I’m now curious as what the technical reason is.
This solenoid is very similar to the ford solenoid. When mounted upside down, debris from normal wear on the contacts gets in between the plunger and its sleeve, binding them up. Right side up, that debris sits harmlessly in the bottom cup of the solenoid. Chris
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