Re ring 1 cylinder on a very worn out motor.

I have an original engine, never been messed with, in a 78 k5 blazer. That sat for 20 years.
It has kind of low oil pressure and had 130 compression across the board.

I took the engine apart to clean it and put new gaskets and bearings in due to it being pretty worn out and really sludgy inside…..it was very sludgy.
When pushing the piston up during tear down. I broke a the top compression ring on the ridge.

this engine is worn out, probably really worn out, but it had fair compression. I know the cylinders are egg shaped and are probably way out of spec.

The deal is. I’m not going to be driving this truck a lot. It isn’t worth it to rebuild the engine for how much it will get driven. I want to keep it standard as it’s numbers matching. It ran ok for running around town. The oil just got dirty really quickly and it was leaking everywhere. So I wanted to fix that.

I want to fix that one cylinder. I am going to rering it and just deal with the blow by.

question is. In today’s times. What rings should I use?

I’ve heard that if I hone with a stone, that moly rigs will get rough edges

I’ve heard to put moly rings in with no hone and they will seal ok even though they are not cut.

or I can use the cast rings and deal with the blow by.
I might drive this truck 200 miles a year. It needs to be completely gone though and I’m not ready to do that yet.
So I want to patch the engine and get some life out of it without machine work.

Which ring set of 3 should I use. and keep in mind…….its just the top ring for now so I’m not opposed to just putting on one ring and no hone.

I do not want to go through this engine and do this right. I want a rigged solution that will work for 5000 miles or less.

 

Ridge ream, dingberry hone, cheap re-ring kit from PAW.
That's how I did my first engine when I was 15. It ran just fine.

 

don't even have to remove the entire ridge, just the bottom of it.

I use a cheap spring loaded 3 stone hone, instead of a ball hone, because that's what I have. I'd put normal cast rings in, after honing.

Even with .010" taper, new rings will last for quite a while, and it should run good and not burn oil. I'd expect to get 20k miles out of it, but it seems all the engines I've done ring jobs on lately don't get driven anywhere near that much. So all is well.

 

What I was thinking was, if these new rings are really soft.

would they not cut to shape in the egg shape.

I saw they like a 280 hone with 400 grit finish

rock auto sells a one cylinder ring set for $10.

I’m not even sure I broke it from it coming out. I didn’t have to force it. I think it was already broken

I found heavy heavy films of rust in the water jackets.
They were like goo. It looked like a paper towel was in there but it was just rust film build up.

I’m either going to have the block cleaned at a shop or flush the jackets with muriatic acid.

might have broken from overheating but the cylinder looks fine.

it is the question of
should I use a cast iron regular ring or the soft moly ring.

it being a 350 I could probably use a piece of leather and some chewing gum and it would run

 

Exactly.
I won’t put 20k on this truck. Probably not even 1k in the next few years

I will use a stone hone as that cuts the cylinder straight where as a ball hone shapes to the cylinder.

 

Don't overthink it, just break the glaze, put in some new rings, and drive it.

I'd put in a complete set of the cheapest rings I could find. I've found old NORS sets on ebay for good prices for some oddball engines I've worked on, they worked fine.

 

Once again LISTEN to Squirrel. At least get rid of the bottom of the ridge. First engine I rebuilt, at about 14, I did not know that. It was on my go cart. Honed it and put in new rings. It hammered when ever the piston came up and hit the ridge. I'm sure it eventually broke the new rings too.

 

With consistent compression across the board, and since you are already replacing the bearings, cut the ridge, and replace the rings on all the cylinders with a light quick breaking of the cylinder wall surfaces. Cheap rings will work well for what you have in mind.
At $10 a piston, spend the extra $70, so everything remains the same (or look for an old "kit" that is cheaper). That one cylinder you replace the rings in may work so much better then the other 7, you will regret not doing them at the same time.

Rings, bearings and gaskets was the "rebuild" I did on 1/2 of the beaters I've had over the years. Those motors went longer then most of the beaters did, a few of the motors even made it into the next car!

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/313400053012?

 

We use to buy Repco protec rings that had a rebate/groove in the top ring so it wouldn't hit the ridge
[no honing was needed just drop them in]
Them and Valve guide seals would stop them smoking

 

Worked at a place that sometimes did some pretty low end stuff for those that couldn't pay for more.
One guy came in for a cheap OH. Didn't have money for doing it right. Car was one foot from the junkyard. He just needed a running car. Had .025 taper (BAD). It ran better, but the cost was not worth the small improvement. Doing it yourself will cut that down.

Just remember, putting it off like this means the bores are going to be even worse and may not clean up at 0.030 (or 50!) for whoever you end up passing it on to. Please don't move it on down the road with "it's worn but standard, numbers matching".

 

If the numbers matching will be that important, they sell sleeves for Chevy motors. Maybe you can bring it back to standard bore.

 

Years ago there were ring sets designed to work with older engines that were fairly clapped out.

Some were called "radical" ring sets made to work with tapered out out-of-round cylinders. They were softer so they broke in faster and conformed with less than optimal cylinders.

I have not seen them in 45+ years. I used to see them in old parts catalogs. Are they still around?

 

Why don't you actually measure the bores while you have it apart ? You said you are going to have to have to :

So if you have it cleaned at a shop, you will need to replace gaskets and water jacket plugs and probably the cam bearings. I'd assume that it needs a timing chain unless its been previously replaced.

If you are going to hone the cylinders with a hone that will true the walls rather than a ball hone which follows existing contour, then you should replace all the rings.

Since all that has been done, might as well replace the bearings...........


Each logical thing you do always leads to another logical thing. When you try to do things too cheaply, often it doesn't work out. I posted a thread on here once about the Worlds Worst Mechanic.........I bought the core from him when he broke a piston and realized he made a mistake. Full of grit and crank polished with probably about 100 grit. The problem is, what do you do if you reassemble an engine and it smokes after you have already put a few hundred dollars in it ?

 

Three common types of hones. The end ones won't make the cylinder round, only the center one will.

The ball hone will contact all of the bore. The light duty 3 stone hone will not get the "low" spots.

 

I recently replaced rings on one piston in one of my engines. I broke the rings and ring lands so I bought another factory piston and Hastings cast rings. Honed with a three stone and slapped it back together. First start up I let it idle just long enough to get warm, dial in carb and timing then I went around the block about three time accelerating and engine braking to load the rings. Since then I’ve driven it a few times, no smoking and it’s running like a champ though I haven’t pulled the plug or done a compression test. I’m happy with the results

 

I have alway been told cast rings on used bores and moly rings on new bores. Ring the one hole, bearings, timing chain and oil pump it may run for ever.

 

I think many here would be surprised at what condition an engine can be in and run well for a long time.

I would personally touch the bores as little as possible. Just a glance with the stone to remove the ridge and put the engine back together with all new "consumables" (gaskets, seals, bearings) to the tune of a couple hundred dollars.

 

Pulled down one boss's BBC, used some oil, a bit down on power. 3 mains spun, no noise!
Had a customers car SBF, a bit down on power. all cylinders under 100 PSI compression!
Had a BBM, ran fine, had jumped at least one tooth.
All of them ran fine and were a can o' worms once diagnosed.

 

I went ahead and bought the rings off eBay.
I’ll cut the ridge down with the Autozone rental tool and hone it with a new 180 stone

 

Can you tell me more about the center one that will make the cylinder round. I’m guessing I need that one.

 

Actually you want the ball hone. If you get the cylinders round, you'll have to open up the bottom quite a bit, and the piston skirts will be too loose. The tapered wear, near the top, is normal...the piston skirt is still well supported, but the rings open and close as they move up and down near the top of the stroke. This wears the rings and ring lands more than in an engine without the taper, but the new rings will usually last 10k-40k miles, depending on how bad the taper is.

When you want to spend a lot of money on the engine, get it bored and honed so the cylinders are round like they should be, and the new oversize rings and pistons should last well over 100k miles.

 

By "last" you mean "zero blowby and zero smoke". After that it just goes back to be a "normal" 100-200k engine that burns a bit of oil and has a bit of blowby but is otherwise fine and can be run another 100k or more.

 

We have become so technical these days. My father used to tell me about how engines wore out in 30-40,000 miles. They were often rebuilt in dirt floor garages by men who had no measuring devices and could not read. They put new rings on the pistons. New insert bearing may have been put in. Often they were babbit bearings with shims that were adjusted by feel. Sometimes they lasted longer than the factory build.

 

Yeah, you have to adjust your perspective a bit when dealing with old engines.

But in real life, very very few old engines get very many miles at all on them. Whether they get the $5k rebuild, or the $500 ring job overhaul. So, I generally go with the cheap lazy way if it will get the engine back to burning less than a quart every 500 miles or so, and don't worry too much about blowby.

 

Even as late as the mid 1980s, few car companies did warranty work on motors because of oil consumption, the motor had to have "excessive oil consumption" and it had to be documented before they would even consider it. The industry standard for "excessive oil consumption" was to burn (not leak, they would fix that) a quart of oil in less then 500 miles. These were new from the factory motors with less then 12,000 miles on them.

Of all the vehicles I've driven over the years, probably less then 5 or 6, I drove more then 100,000 miles, and probably another 10-12 I drove more then 50,000 miles, out of probably 120 vehicles I drove over the years.
A couple of them got the "ring, bearing, timing chain, and gasket rebuild" and did fine. The others survived with what ever the factory gave them, at what ever miles they had when they came under my control and what miles I put on them, then many went on to other people.

Like Jim said, very few old engines get very many miles on them.

 

Listen to Jim (squirrel). Hone the cylinder with a ball hone if you can, or whatever you can find that just breaks the glaze without removing measurable metal. If you don't hone it, it'll likely still be ok...and use plain cast rings.

 

After buying the eBay set of standard rings , I’ve decided to just ball hone it like you said.
im going to get a lisle ridge reamer, as the Autozone one doesn’t seem to work that well.
I’ve also going to get a bore gauge and some micrometers to see what the bores look like and how far out they are.

I have all new stuff anyway, for this engine. I just didn’t know how filthy it was one the inside. I have a new timing chain, oil pump and screen, gaskets, cam, rod and main bearings.
I have lisle cam bearing installer, and I was just going to use the aluminum engine tech bearings standard size.

I am going to take some oven cleaner and clean the block really well.

so……in looking at this.
The water jackets between the cylinder walls have a huge amount of rust build up between them. It’s really caked in there. You can’t even feel a gap.
I’m going to take some muriatic acid to the water jackets to dissolve all that rust. I think there is also some stop leak in there,
I’m replacing all the freeze plugs anyway, so I’ll get as much rust and garbage out of the jacket as I can

I’ll keep the same cam and lifters. Even though the lifters on the bottom are flat. Do you recommend buying new lifters? There is no curve on any of them on the bottom.

I’ll just do what I can with this engine. i. Just not going to run it much, but I would like the truck to run and I would like to change the oil and not have it black in 10 minutes after an oil change.

Any recommendations or things I’ve said that you all disagree with, let me know and I’ll change them based on your advice

 

Of you kept the lifters on order, put them back in where they were. If not, good luck.

 

On the oil consumption considered normal by oes current is 1 qt per 1000 miles. Most modern engines I've dealt with do actually tend to use over a quart between oil changes. Hand a couple come in with one at in the pan. What I was told is both vvt and variable displacement results in higher oil consumption