Featured Projects Dirt Modified inline info

Well, finally got the car home today and took some pics of the details, thinking about making a new thread for the project progress as it comes along. Here's some teasers anyway. And, surprise, exhaust was only really mocked up at the head, maybe for display purposes. Id say its stull safe to say it was an inline GMC.

 

Early Ford transmission, that is going to require a Cyclone G.M.C./Chevy to early Ford transmission adaptor tough to find but they are out there.




I have two one in my vintage stock car (261 Chevy engine) project one for my future track roadster project.

This is the way they look from the factory (mine for the track roadster)


When you find them they usually look like this, the bottom ring is cut off because it limits you to a 9.5 inch clutch.



I built a bolt on bottom ring to support the transmission


This is the best photo I have of the whole set up in the car.

 

It is also going to require machine work; the flywheel will need to be drilled for the Ford pressure plate I have photos detailing this if you would like to see them.

 

Easier way than a Cyclone is a GMC to SBC adaptor (a 5/8" plate), then SBC to Flathead adaptor. Or instead of a GMC302, run a 292 which has SBC bellhousing pattern.

 

So, the guy I bought it from had set aside (so that it wouldn't fall off and get lost) a splined hub sort of adapter to directly bolt onto the GMC crankshaft. He kept calling the transmission an "in-out box." I'd say that is because he is most familiar with and owns more modern sprint cars and super modifieds. It does have a quick change rear end, so it could have been changed and geared for each track and direct drive. There is a battery box in the right side of the engine bay, but no other evidence of a starter necessarily (no other wiring than a ground cable.) I didn't take a pic of the adapter unfortunately and my shop is about 45 mins away.

 

I had the exact same thing in the Olds that was originally in my Mod. About a 6" in diameter steel and aluminum "doughnut" that bolted to the crankshaft and coupled with the CAE "In/Out Box". An "In/Out Box" is exactly what it says; it's in gear or out. No gears, just a couple of "dogs" that can be shifted between "in" and "out" of gear when everything is shut down. A simple, no-nonsense setup (light, too). I couldn't find a similar coupling when I put the hemi in the car, so I used an Aluminum flywheel and a regular clutch. I'm glad I did, because maneuvering in the pits is much easier. In the old days, you had to take the car out of gear if you had to stop or slow down, and that was it. With a clutch, you at least have a chance to re-engage and keep going. Maneuvering a car with direct drive and no clutch in a crowded pit area can be a hair-raising experience.

 

It could be a “poor man’s” In/Out box, it may only have high gear.

In/Out boxes were full on race car stuff-Expensive

 

Do you know of any Cyclone adapters for sale by anyone? Definitely having a tough time locating any. I've found plenty of SBC to ford adapters but not many inline to SBC adapters other than complete kits for auto trans. I'd rather just use what was probably in place originally: the Cyclone.

 

The last time I saw one for sale was on Farsebook (Facebook) marketplace, I did know of one person who may have one.

I will check with him this evening, when I get home from work.

If he does have one he will be fair but it is not going to be cheap.

 

One was for sale last year on whatever this app is

barnfinds threads app?

 

OK, let me know. Honestly, this project is starting to price itself out of existence. It's gonna cost me more to put the original setup in there than I paid for the whole car by far. I'm considering a SBC instead simply because of budget. The car will never be worth what I'll have to put into it.

 

Thanks, I found it on Instagram.

 

GMCs ain’t cheap.
I’m running a 235 in mine mainly due to cost. It’s a lot cheaper and easier to locate speed parts.
Could skip the adapter and use another trans.
A Muncie 3 speed that a 235 was born with is cheap

 

Just my .02 but generally motorsports historians/collators want cars as raced and this car likely never raced with a small block Chevy. Which will affect the value in that market where it is most likely to be sold.

I am reminded of two local race cars the original Toll Gate Ice Cream coupe from the early 1950 and the Don Round coupe.

The Toll Gate Ice Cream coupe was found and restored, when the man who restored it showed it to the original owner and builder Ray Zaltzner(SP) looked at it and asked “Why does it have a Chevy? It always had a flathead, the car I built after this.”

The Don Rounds coupe is Don’s second car after he wrecked the flathead car, this car was built in the late 50s/early 60 with a small block Chevy but the rest of the running gear is early Ford.

The Rounds family bought the car back from a friend of mine a few years ago. When ever the car is taken to a general interest car show people told me friend and tell the Rounds family they need to make the car “right” and put a flathead in it.

Both my friend Mel and the Rounds family have a very difficult time making people understand the car is right because it never had a flathead.

Also I will admit a Jimmy 6 and a Cyclone adapter are expensive but this car is not likely to see competitive racing again, and once you have the parts are only going to spend the money once these are not parts you are or at least shouldn’t ever have to replace.

 

I agree with the above. When I first got my car, I had no idea of it's history. It did have an empty Olds block in it, but I had a good running Chrysler hemi I wanted to use. It was real easy to put the hemi in (a different adapter and minor changes to the front mounts) without messing it up, so I went that way. Over the following 10 or so years, I was able to put together an almost complete history of the car, including the fact that it had been "Minnesota State Stock Car Champion" two times, as well as track champion at multiple tracks over multiple years. As it sits now with the hemi, it's a "turnkey" operation.

I then realized that this was all done with an Olds Rocket, so I started looking. I found a rebuilt '51 Olds with all the goodies (Isky cam, adjustable rocker arms, special pistons etc.). I still have the Olds/early Ford (actually, a CAE in/out box) adapter and managed to purchase the Offenhauser three two barrel intake manifold originally run on the car from the second owner. I had planned to get the engines changed out, but the project is so far down my list that, at 82, I'm never going to get to it. The car is going up for sale when I get back to Minnesota, along with the Rocket. Hopefully, the next owner will do it right.

 

A Ford 300 six will have the look, be more powerful, and cost 1/10 the price of the original engine.

 

I gotta agree with this. In Minnesota, some tracks used to (maybe still do) have a class where you could only run a 300 Ford 6 or a 292 Chevy 6. All of the cars ran Fords.

 

Run a 292 Chevy and use an Ez to find sbc to flathead adapter
Everything behind the engine stays the same.
With a mill, you can poop your own intake.

 

Well guys, not trying to dismiss anybody, but as far as running a ford or chevy 6 cylinder, I'd have to say that would ruin any kind of historical accuracy, nor do I have any desire to run those engines. As far as the GMC vs SBC, I have to say that I'm not even sure it actually ran the GMC. Although it exists in those few pictures of it sitting at the museum from maybe 1980s-2000s, I don't have any real concrete evidence that's what was raced. The headers are merely mocked up and the flanges are solid with no port in them. The holes in the hood and side panels could gave easily been torch cut later to accommodate a GMC that was on hand at the time to make it look more complete on display. As far as engine mounts go: there's 2 holes in a cross member up front, 2 ears on either side of where the bellhousing would be, and a mystery mount mid way on the right side only with 2 holes as well. The biggest mystery to me is why would the header pipes be merely mocked up? There's nothing to hold up the whole exhaust other than one bracket near the rear of the big pipe running fore/aft. Leaving the front end only bolted up to the head, which the flanges that are there dont even have bolt holes in them and are square cut with the pipe even hanging off the side of a couple.


As far as the price of rare parts, I have to say, it's only worth what someone is willing to pay. How many people are building hot rod GMC engines in 2025? That one bellhousing has been posted for nearly a year at $800. Obviously there were no takers at that price. For the McGurk intake, I've located a few to include one guy who said he wanted $2000 but conceded he'd take $750...lol. I've seen both things listed and sold elsewhere within the past 3 years for less than $500 each. How much is this car really worth in the end? There's a lot of old guys who are gonna go to their grave asking too much for stuff their kids will haul off to the dump after they pass. Sad, but true. That's my rant for today, hope I don't ruffle too many feathers, that is not my intention. Thanks for all the input.

 

Boy, you got that right. We had sorta the same situation with flathead Ford blocks a few years ago. There was a big push to reproduce them, but everybody soon realized that there have to be at least 10,000 good blocks stashed under benches and on shelves in this country. I personally know where about 20 are right now and I'm not looking. They're not for sale now, but most of the owners are over 70, so it's just a matter of time.

Rare speed equipment is a little different. If it's rare and oddball, you better grab it now, cause there ain't gonna be no more. I had a bad experience with an Olds Rocket starter changeover housing. The were rare (but not really oddball), so when I had a chance to buy one for $375, I jumped on it. Now I hear they're re-popping them for less money.

 

It's a numbers game. I probably don't have to tell you that fewer and fewer young people are getting into this hobby. Meanwhile, the largest group (baby boomers) are quickly leaving this plane of existence. And lots of the parts hordes that were never for sale before are finally being liquidated after their passing. The market will play itself out. Even with the inflation of Covid era pricing, eventually there won't even be many people looking for these parts. The market will correct itself. As much as these things have been flying overseas to Europe and Southeast Asia, their economies are getting to be even worse than our own, so that boom will bust as well. I've already seen cars coming back from Europe at a loss to their former owners.

 

Make it go and stop and drive it

hooking up a sbc to a flathead trans in my old beater.
Ez, economical and period

Rare parts value? There’s an old speed shop warehouse near me. Full of old parts. Guy has been selling for a while. The engine adapters move slow. Even advertising here.
A lot of vintage pieces will eventually bring pennys on the dollar.
Luckily I got mine either free, traded labor for or stupid cheap.

 

As an old timer, I still believe that a car like yours deserves some sort of inline engine. 235 Chevrolets are all over the place and speed equipment readily available. No need to do pricey options like 261 or GMC stuff. You have a period correct survivor that was not a highly engineered or highly fabricated racer. Give it a working mans engine and go make some noise and have fun.

 

In that vein, why not put a 235 into it? They're pretty cheap, and there's no reason you can't be keeping your eyes open for a GMC. It took me about 10 years to find a proper Olds for my car and it's now with the car, even though I have passed my expiration date.

Plus, vintage racing is a lot of fun, and you don't have spend crazy money or effort on it.

 

Bobby Zautner

 

What am I missing?
The "value" of an old dirt track car is based on its history, or innovation. That history needs documentation tied to a driver or a car owner, usually with a winning history. You don't even know if it was ever raced, you only know that it sat in a museum someplace with a fake header. There were a bunch of cars built that never made a lap around a track, or made so few laps it may as well have stayed home. For all you know, this car could well be one of those cars. Someone found it, cleaned it up a little and shoved it into a museum because it was cool, they made the fake header to make it look like a complete car.

The "value" of your car is the value of the parts it has on it, or the value of someone's memories of knowing someone that had a car "like" it, or the thrill you would get from owning or racing it, nothing more.
You need to determine what you want to do with the car, and have fun with it. That means you finish the build any way you want, with the funds you want to spend (a car with a proven history may be different, but you have no history). That was the way most of those old dirt track cars were raced anyway, those parts that car needs could have been changed every season, if it ever ran.

Build it and have fun. What you do with it may be what gives the car its value.

 

@Roy Wainscott. Don't be in such a hurry. The parts will find you if you slow down. I don't know how involved you are with racing. If you find an old racer in your area they will know who raced those engines. Often times they have a shed of old stuff. As it was obsolete for racing it was just stored there.
Farmers fields can source an engine. Take a ride in the country. Look behind the barn. My local Pic-A-Part gets big old trucks in on occasion.

 

I totally agree. My scratch built champ car replica has no provenance whatsoever, aside from what it will gain by me being the owner. That is why I am building it to be a fully functional street legal vehicle capable of easily being made race ready for vintage racing when I desire it. That is all the provenance I need.

 

O.K. then who determines if the people who drove the car are historically significant?

You are from Frankfort Ill. do you recognize any of the men in this photo?

I am the seated with my back to the camara.

The other two are Kenny Tremont Jr. (kneeling)
41 track titles at seven different tracks.
1999 Syracuse 300 winner (Big Block Modifieds) the dirt mile on the NY State Fairgrounds
4 time winner of the 358 modified (1986, 1992, 1996 and 1997) winner on the Mile.
291 Career wins

Joey Lawrance (Standing)
Innovator
Engine builder noted for his supercharged fuel injected on methanol oval track flatheads, later his turbocharged fuel Injected 300 Ford 6.

The first to used and perfect a Ford Twin I-beam in a oval track car. (I have been lucky enough to be friends with Joey for about seven years.)

Yes, I did offer them my chair!




Joey in this "whites" in the pits


One of Joe's first crossfire super changed fuel injected methanal burning flatheads!
I bet if found this car was found today 90% of the people on the H.A.M.B. would be all wound up on the fact they found a 32 three window, but would have no care or interest in the historical significance in this car.





Joey's turbo charged injected 300 Ford 6, he build his own injection using a 331 Hemi unit.



Have you ever heard of Steve Danish?
Multiple track championships at various track
The first ever Fonda Speedway track champion 1953 (NASCAR Sportsman)
His 12 feature wins in a row at Fonda in 1953 still stands!
1953 New York State NASCAR Sportsman Champion
The first person to win a200 lap race at Fonda in 1963
he and his crew were the first wear uninforms.



How about Pete Corey?

New York State NASCAR Sportsman Champion
1955 Langhorne PA Winner
Fonda Track Champion 1957, 1965, and 1966


Pete Corey is still very well respected in New York to the point his daughter Kathy Marchione mentioned him when she ran and won for New York State Senate.




Now because none of these men are very well known outside of the northeast does that mean they or the cars they drove and built aren't historically significant?